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	<title>Comments on: The Five Elements Common to All Stories</title>
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	<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/admin/craft/storytelling/five-story-elements</link>
	<description>Writing and Reading. Commerce and Art. Fantasy and Science Fiction. Discuss.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:26:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: DeepGenre &#187; The Two Elements Common to All Science Fiction Stories</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/admin/craft/storytelling/five-story-elements#comment-1382</link>
		<dc:creator>DeepGenre &#187; The Two Elements Common to All Science Fiction Stories</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Aug 2006 16:25:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/admin/craft/storytelling/five-story-elements#comment-1382</guid>
		<description>[...] Posted in Storytelling, Fantasy, Science Fiction at 12:25 pm By David Louis Edelman Related Posts: The Five Elements Common to All Stories&#160;&#124;&#160;Why Are We Here?&#160;&#124;&#160;View 2: &#8220;Deep Genre&#8221; &#38; &#8220;Genre&#8221;&#160;&#124;&#160; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Posted in Storytelling, Fantasy, Science Fiction at 12:25 pm By David Louis Edelman Related Posts: The Five Elements Common to All Stories&nbsp;|&nbsp;Why Are We Here?&nbsp;|&nbsp;View 2: &#8220;Deep Genre&#8221; &#38; &#8220;Genre&#8221;&nbsp;|&nbsp; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Louis Edelman</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/admin/craft/storytelling/five-story-elements#comment-1230</link>
		<dc:creator>David Louis Edelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 00:27:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/admin/craft/storytelling/five-story-elements#comment-1230</guid>
		<description>Erin: I think maybe Point of View is encompassed in my #3, Viewpoint. After all, your choice of POV is really just one more filter you put on the universe, not too much different in a way from the filter of time and place, right?

Kind of funny that I called it Viewpoint without really thinking about the relation to POV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erin: I think maybe Point of View is encompassed in my #3, Viewpoint. After all, your choice of POV is really just one more filter you put on the universe, not too much different in a way from the filter of time and place, right?</p>
<p>Kind of funny that I called it Viewpoint without really thinking about the relation to POV.</p>
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		<title>By: Erin Underwood</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/admin/craft/storytelling/five-story-elements#comment-1226</link>
		<dc:creator>Erin Underwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jul 2006 21:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/admin/craft/storytelling/five-story-elements#comment-1226</guid>
		<description>David:  Where does Point of View fit into the 5 elements that youâ€™ve listed? A few of the elements touch on POV and some of the comments also loosely address POV. However, it seems like the choice that the narrator makes in how to tell the story has a dramatic impact on the story itself. For example, the same story told in either first or third person would be vastly different than a story told in second person. How do you think POV fits into the 5 elements?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David:  Where does Point of View fit into the 5 elements that youâ€™ve listed? A few of the elements touch on POV and some of the comments also loosely address POV. However, it seems like the choice that the narrator makes in how to tell the story has a dramatic impact on the story itself. For example, the same story told in either first or third person would be vastly different than a story told in second person. How do you think POV fits into the 5 elements?</p>
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		<title>By: Sherwood Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/admin/craft/storytelling/five-story-elements#comment-1216</link>
		<dc:creator>Sherwood Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jul 2006 18:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/admin/craft/storytelling/five-story-elements#comment-1216</guid>
		<description>Molly: hey!  I felt that! *g*

David: you're probably right...though i tend to think of audience at one end of the spectrum, and writer at the other, and point in the middle--but then we can change all the terms around and reinterpret them as you say.

The Human Experience really is the number one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Molly: hey!  I felt that! *g*</p>
<p>David: you&#8217;re probably right&#8230;though i tend to think of audience at one end of the spectrum, and writer at the other, and point in the middle&#8211;but then we can change all the terms around and reinterpret them as you say.</p>
<p>The Human Experience really is the number one.</p>
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		<title>By: David Louis Edelman</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/admin/craft/storytelling/five-story-elements#comment-1215</link>
		<dc:creator>David Louis Edelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jul 2006 17:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/admin/craft/storytelling/five-story-elements#comment-1215</guid>
		<description>Sherwood: I really like that point about &lt;em&gt;point&lt;/em&gt;. I wonder if it's implied by &lt;em&gt;audience&lt;/em&gt;, though. In other words, if there's always a storyteller and always an audience, then by necessity there's some relationship between them. But then again, as others have pointed out, everything could be considered a subset of The Human Experience anyway. It's probably just a question of semantics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sherwood: I really like that point about <em>point</em>. I wonder if it&#8217;s implied by <em>audience</em>, though. In other words, if there&#8217;s always a storyteller and always an audience, then by necessity there&#8217;s some relationship between them. But then again, as others have pointed out, everything could be considered a subset of The Human Experience anyway. It&#8217;s probably just a question of semantics.</p>
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		<title>By: Constance Ash</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/admin/craft/storytelling/five-story-elements#comment-1214</link>
		<dc:creator>Constance Ash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:57:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/admin/craft/storytelling/five-story-elements#comment-1214</guid>
		<description>When it comes to theme, much of the time that emerges unconsciously.

Conscious, intentional writing'to theme' tends not to work, at least in print fiction.  It is the unconscious that develops that, with the emblems, symbols, repetitions, image clusters that enforce the theme (and characters too, often).   Personally I cannot see how anyone could do that intentionally as a first draft, at least.

When you have the entire map of the work laid out in front of your eyes, and you go over it from beginning to end to begin the revising, rewriting, and so on, you -- at least I am -- are so surprised to see what is there.  Then you can punch it up or delete it or whatever seems best to you in the rewriting and editing processes.

It seems theme can work on an intentional level very successfully though, in an arc television program, for instance. 

That Ford continues throughout his career to make movies that have a theme of family and community is not what he did consciously, from everything those who knew him say, yet the concerns of family and community worked very powerfully within him, and those concerns emerged again and again in the movies he directed.

Love, C.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When it comes to theme, much of the time that emerges unconsciously.</p>
<p>Conscious, intentional writing&#8217;to theme&#8217; tends not to work, at least in print fiction.  It is the unconscious that develops that, with the emblems, symbols, repetitions, image clusters that enforce the theme (and characters too, often).   Personally I cannot see how anyone could do that intentionally as a first draft, at least.</p>
<p>When you have the entire map of the work laid out in front of your eyes, and you go over it from beginning to end to begin the revising, rewriting, and so on, you &#8212; at least I am &#8212; are so surprised to see what is there.  Then you can punch it up or delete it or whatever seems best to you in the rewriting and editing processes.</p>
<p>It seems theme can work on an intentional level very successfully though, in an arc television program, for instance. </p>
<p>That Ford continues throughout his career to make movies that have a theme of family and community is not what he did consciously, from everything those who knew him say, yet the concerns of family and community worked very powerfully within him, and those concerns emerged again and again in the movies he directed.</p>
<p>Love, C.</p>
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		<title>By: Constance Ash</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/admin/craft/storytelling/five-story-elements#comment-1213</link>
		<dc:creator>Constance Ash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:49:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Kit, I did read Wilson's &lt;em&gt;The Outsider&lt;/em&gt; back when I was an undergrad.   Since it seemed, as I grew more experienced in the great big side world that there were so many of Wilson's very personal issues, including fantasy wishs fulfillment in Wilson's perspective on the outsider as to devalue the book as a whole for me, and it has dropped out of my references entirely.  That ex-monster, er h/u/s/b/a/n/d swore by that book and some others no doubt had something to do with that.

Did you ever read his very silly sex books, such as &lt;em&gt;The Origins of the Sexual Impulse&lt;/em&gt;?  These can really be barf-inducing, especially the risible writing itself.

Love, C.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kit, I did read Wilson&#8217;s <em>The Outsider</em> back when I was an undergrad.   Since it seemed, as I grew more experienced in the great big side world that there were so many of Wilson&#8217;s very personal issues, including fantasy wishs fulfillment in Wilson&#8217;s perspective on the outsider as to devalue the book as a whole for me, and it has dropped out of my references entirely.  That ex-monster, er h/u/s/b/a/n/d swore by that book and some others no doubt had something to do with that.</p>
<p>Did you ever read his very silly sex books, such as <em>The Origins of the Sexual Impulse</em>?  These can really be barf-inducing, especially the risible writing itself.</p>
<p>Love, C.</p>
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		<title>By: Molly Newman</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/admin/craft/storytelling/five-story-elements#comment-1210</link>
		<dc:creator>Molly Newman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jul 2006 04:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Mmmm, you have a "point," Sherwood. I like your broadened definition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mmmm, you have a &#8220;point,&#8221; Sherwood. I like your broadened definition.</p>
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		<title>By: Sherwood Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/admin/craft/storytelling/five-story-elements#comment-1209</link>
		<dc:creator>Sherwood Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jul 2006 02:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/admin/craft/storytelling/five-story-elements#comment-1209</guid>
		<description>That's an interesting article, Molly, thanks for the link.  I think &lt;i&gt;theme&lt;/i&gt; is too limited: he says, rightly, "What do you want the story to say?" but what the author wants it to say is not necessarily what it says to the readers now--or the readers in ten years--or in a hundred.  I like 'point' better because it's broad, it stays between the creator and the reader, whereas theme, at least as stated here (and elsewhere) is something the writer is endeavoring to impose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s an interesting article, Molly, thanks for the link.  I think <i>theme</i> is too limited: he says, rightly, &#8220;What do you want the story to say?&#8221; but what the author wants it to say is not necessarily what it says to the readers now&#8211;or the readers in ten years&#8211;or in a hundred.  I like &#8216;point&#8217; better because it&#8217;s broad, it stays between the creator and the reader, whereas theme, at least as stated here (and elsewhere) is something the writer is endeavoring to impose.</p>
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		<title>By: Molly Newman</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/admin/craft/storytelling/five-story-elements#comment-1208</link>
		<dc:creator>Molly Newman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jul 2006 22:18:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sherwood, would you say then that "point" relates to "theme?" (just read a &lt;a href="http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=pd&#38;article=2115" rel="nofollow"&gt;great column about "theme"&lt;/a&gt; by Steven Grant at comicbookresources.com and so it's heavy on my mind.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sherwood, would you say then that &#8220;point&#8221; relates to &#8220;theme?&#8221; (just read a <a href="http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=pd&amp;article=2115" rel="nofollow">great column about &#8220;theme&#8221;</a> by Steven Grant at comicbookresources.com and so it&#8217;s heavy on my mind.)</p>
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