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	<title>Comments on: ICon - celebrating fantasy in a fantastic place</title>
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	<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/carolberg/author-news/icon-celebrating-fantasy-in-a-fantastic-place</link>
	<description>Writing and Reading. Commerce and Art. Fantasy and Science Fiction. Discuss.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 00:31:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Stacy</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/carolberg/author-news/icon-celebrating-fantasy-in-a-fantastic-place#comment-49344</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 19:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sadly, unless they have the WFC within driving distance again, I can't justify the expense based on the experience I had.  I don't drink, either, which is always a handicap at social events.  I missed bumping into you and I certainly would have said hello if I had.  I think if I was published and knew more people or had something to sell it may have worked out better.  I'm not badmouthing the event, but basically wanted to say, yes, I'm a younger person, and the statements about the community not welcoming new people rang true in my experience.  If you are past the college phase of dressing up in costume and hanging out in the gaming room (if applicable) but haven't yet been reading or publishing for forty years there seems to be no niche to join in.  Maybe I'll try out the Worldcon in Montreal, if I can afford it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadly, unless they have the WFC within driving distance again, I can&#8217;t justify the expense based on the experience I had.  I don&#8217;t drink, either, which is always a handicap at social events.  I missed bumping into you and I certainly would have said hello if I had.  I think if I was published and knew more people or had something to sell it may have worked out better.  I&#8217;m not badmouthing the event, but basically wanted to say, yes, I&#8217;m a younger person, and the statements about the community not welcoming new people rang true in my experience.  If you are past the college phase of dressing up in costume and hanging out in the gaming room (if applicable) but haven&#8217;t yet been reading or publishing for forty years there seems to be no niche to join in.  Maybe I&#8217;ll try out the Worldcon in Montreal, if I can afford it.</p>
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		<title>By: Carol Berg</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/carolberg/author-news/icon-celebrating-fantasy-in-a-fantastic-place#comment-49339</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Berg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 19:08:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/carolberg/author-news/icon-celebrating-fantasy-in-a-fantastic-place#comment-49339</guid>
		<description>Stacy,

World Fantasy is a bit different than most other sf conventions and, yes, it is WAY different than writers' workshops/conferences like Surrey or Pikes Peak that focus on teaching the craft and business of writing.  Other cons have lots of programming choices, but, certainly for the past few years, WFC programming has been very light, even compared to small local cons.  The few panels are very much centered on the theme (ghosts, this year) - which leaves a lot of ground uncovered (and often bores me to tears).  WFC is a great opportunity to meet lots of fantasy authors in one place - even legendary figures like Patricia McKillip and Guy Kay and Gene Wolfe - and to hear them read, but if you're not into readings that's a bust.  Which leaves networking.

WFC is actually more of a family reunion than a full-bodied con.  People come to meet friends and professional acquaintances and eat and drink and talk.  At my first WFC, I felt very much the same as you.  I ran into exactly one person than I knew.  She had been to another WFC and introduced me to two people she knew.  I still spent lots of time in my room and swore never to go to WFC again.  But I tried one more time, and now, seven years later, I go to WFC specifically to see a whole conglomeration of people who come almost every year.  Yet I (and many other authors) &lt;em&gt;do &lt;/em&gt;love it when someone new comes up to me and says, "could we talk?" or "do you have time for a cup of tea?"  That's how I've met a number of my best writing friends, published and unpublished.

That's my experience,
Carol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stacy,</p>
<p>World Fantasy is a bit different than most other sf conventions and, yes, it is WAY different than writers&#8217; workshops/conferences like Surrey or Pikes Peak that focus on teaching the craft and business of writing.  Other cons have lots of programming choices, but, certainly for the past few years, WFC programming has been very light, even compared to small local cons.  The few panels are very much centered on the theme (ghosts, this year) - which leaves a lot of ground uncovered (and often bores me to tears).  WFC is a great opportunity to meet lots of fantasy authors in one place - even legendary figures like Patricia McKillip and Guy Kay and Gene Wolfe - and to hear them read, but if you&#8217;re not into readings that&#8217;s a bust.  Which leaves networking.</p>
<p>WFC is actually more of a family reunion than a full-bodied con.  People come to meet friends and professional acquaintances and eat and drink and talk.  At my first WFC, I felt very much the same as you.  I ran into exactly one person than I knew.  She had been to another WFC and introduced me to two people she knew.  I still spent lots of time in my room and swore never to go to WFC again.  But I tried one more time, and now, seven years later, I go to WFC specifically to see a whole conglomeration of people who come almost every year.  Yet I (and many other authors) <em>do </em>love it when someone new comes up to me and says, &#8220;could we talk?&#8221; or &#8220;do you have time for a cup of tea?&#8221;  That&#8217;s how I&#8217;ve met a number of my best writing friends, published and unpublished.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s my experience,<br />
Carol</p>
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		<title>By: Stacy</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/carolberg/author-news/icon-celebrating-fantasy-in-a-fantastic-place#comment-49334</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 17:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I'm not sure it's fair to put in a note about the World Fantasy Convention in a post about ICon, but I'm going to anyway.  I'm afraid I have to say I'm very disappointed in the, shall we say, group dynamics I found at the World Fantasy Con.  The place was full of the Hoary Old Goat Readers Kevin very accuarately described above, and felt very exclusive to a young first timer like myself.  I've attended a couple of writers workshops in the past that all were very inclusive and great learning experiences, and the con was neither.  I'm not making any plans to invest in attending another con.  Subscribing to Locus is a lot cheaper.  I hope the published writers of this blog had a better time than I did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;s fair to put in a note about the World Fantasy Convention in a post about ICon, but I&#8217;m going to anyway.  I&#8217;m afraid I have to say I&#8217;m very disappointed in the, shall we say, group dynamics I found at the World Fantasy Con.  The place was full of the Hoary Old Goat Readers Kevin very accuarately described above, and felt very exclusive to a young first timer like myself.  I&#8217;ve attended a couple of writers workshops in the past that all were very inclusive and great learning experiences, and the con was neither.  I&#8217;m not making any plans to invest in attending another con.  Subscribing to Locus is a lot cheaper.  I hope the published writers of this blog had a better time than I did.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Andrew Murphy</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/carolberg/author-news/icon-celebrating-fantasy-in-a-fantastic-place#comment-45692</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Andrew Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 01:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/carolberg/author-news/icon-celebrating-fantasy-in-a-fantastic-place#comment-45692</guid>
		<description>I think it often is their thing, but certain segments of fandom are quite simply offputting to any newcomer.  One is the Hoary Old Goat Reader who's read every novel for the past X+ years, but rather than simply turning people on to books they might enjoy, instead gets off on pontificating about various books that have been out of print longer than some younger fans have been alive.  The other is the fannish narcissus effect, which is not to say that there shouldn't be such a thing as a fan guest of honor, but when you go to a panel and the speaker is someone you've never heard of speaking about in-jokes from this strange nomadic clan lodge, rather than, you know, literature or whatever the topic at hand is, this isn't that fun either.  Especially when you realize that in the audience there are local authors and other experts who aren't on that panel or any panel for that matter.

More related to the topic at hand, when I went to the Mexico City Fantasy Arts Festival a few years ago, I also noted that the audience mostly consisted of younger fans, and the oldest people there were some of the Mexican authors.  Which didn't mean that there wasn't a fannish culture, but that it wasn't this odd monolith with its own traditions and secret handshakes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it often is their thing, but certain segments of fandom are quite simply offputting to any newcomer.  One is the Hoary Old Goat Reader who&#8217;s read every novel for the past X+ years, but rather than simply turning people on to books they might enjoy, instead gets off on pontificating about various books that have been out of print longer than some younger fans have been alive.  The other is the fannish narcissus effect, which is not to say that there shouldn&#8217;t be such a thing as a fan guest of honor, but when you go to a panel and the speaker is someone you&#8217;ve never heard of speaking about in-jokes from this strange nomadic clan lodge, rather than, you know, literature or whatever the topic at hand is, this isn&#8217;t that fun either.  Especially when you realize that in the audience there are local authors and other experts who aren&#8217;t on that panel or any panel for that matter.</p>
<p>More related to the topic at hand, when I went to the Mexico City Fantasy Arts Festival a few years ago, I also noted that the audience mostly consisted of younger fans, and the oldest people there were some of the Mexican authors.  Which didn&#8217;t mean that there wasn&#8217;t a fannish culture, but that it wasn&#8217;t this odd monolith with its own traditions and secret handshakes.</p>
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		<title>By: Lois Tilton</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/carolberg/author-news/icon-celebrating-fantasy-in-a-fantastic-place#comment-45691</link>
		<dc:creator>Lois Tilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 01:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I'm curious about the demographics, how many of those young fans came from Russia, forex?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m curious about the demographics, how many of those young fans came from Russia, forex?</p>
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		<title>By: Kate Elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/carolberg/author-news/icon-celebrating-fantasy-in-a-fantastic-place#comment-45690</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 00:33:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/carolberg/author-news/icon-celebrating-fantasy-in-a-fantastic-place#comment-45690</guid>
		<description>The dynamics in Israel are different, for one thing.

But also, the kids here are all right, too.  Maybe they're not into the same conventions in the same way.  I noted plenty of younger people at Wiscon, forex.  And while reading levels overall are down, YA and teen reading is still going well in the marketplace and of course urban fantasy and paranormal is going strong.  So - I dunno.  Maybe it's just not their thing, and why should it be?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The dynamics in Israel are different, for one thing.</p>
<p>But also, the kids here are all right, too.  Maybe they&#8217;re not into the same conventions in the same way.  I noted plenty of younger people at Wiscon, forex.  And while reading levels overall are down, YA and teen reading is still going well in the marketplace and of course urban fantasy and paranormal is going strong.  So - I dunno.  Maybe it&#8217;s just not their thing, and why should it be?</p>
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		<title>By: Lois Tilton</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/carolberg/author-news/icon-celebrating-fantasy-in-a-fantastic-place#comment-45666</link>
		<dc:creator>Lois Tilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 23:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Or will this group just age as it did in the US, with no younger generation picking it up?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or will this group just age as it did in the US, with no younger generation picking it up?</p>
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		<title>By: Carol Berg</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/carolberg/author-news/icon-celebrating-fantasy-in-a-fantastic-place#comment-45642</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Berg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/carolberg/author-news/icon-celebrating-fantasy-in-a-fantastic-place#comment-45642</guid>
		<description>It wasn't so much the presence of the younger crowd, but the complete absence of anyone older that really struck me.  One of the things that surprised me when I began attending sf cons in 2000 was the idea multi-generational fandom.  Not only did people over 30 &lt;em&gt;admit&lt;/em&gt; that they enjoyed speculative fiction...they &lt;em&gt;reveled &lt;/em&gt;in it.   Which is way cool.

Israel's fandom is just young.  By ICon 21, 31, 41 etc. (this was 11), I hope they'll see a broader range of readers and players enjoying the gathering.

Carol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It wasn&#8217;t so much the presence of the younger crowd, but the complete absence of anyone older that really struck me.  One of the things that surprised me when I began attending sf cons in 2000 was the idea multi-generational fandom.  Not only did people over 30 <em>admit</em> that they enjoyed speculative fiction&#8230;they <em>reveled </em>in it.   Which is way cool.</p>
<p>Israel&#8217;s fandom is just young.  By ICon 21, 31, 41 etc. (this was 11), I hope they&#8217;ll see a broader range of readers and players enjoying the gathering.</p>
<p>Carol</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Andrew Murphy</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/carolberg/author-news/icon-celebrating-fantasy-in-a-fantastic-place#comment-45638</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Andrew Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:05:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/carolberg/author-news/icon-celebrating-fantasy-in-a-fantastic-place#comment-45638</guid>
		<description>There are younger people at cons, but always less than there should be.  I was at the Dead Dog party at the wrap-up of Conjecture down in San Diego and the great novelty was that, among all the usual suspects, we had a twenty-three year old.  And part of the point was that it was a novelty.

You find a younger skew at the gaming cons, the anime cons and the comics conventions, and sometimes there you will find cons organized and run by younger people, but there is still a lot of grey in the cons.

Of course, I think there always has been, which isn't that bad a thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are younger people at cons, but always less than there should be.  I was at the Dead Dog party at the wrap-up of Conjecture down in San Diego and the great novelty was that, among all the usual suspects, we had a twenty-three year old.  And part of the point was that it was a novelty.</p>
<p>You find a younger skew at the gaming cons, the anime cons and the comics conventions, and sometimes there you will find cons organized and run by younger people, but there is still a lot of grey in the cons.</p>
<p>Of course, I think there always has been, which isn&#8217;t that bad a thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/carolberg/author-news/icon-celebrating-fantasy-in-a-fantastic-place#comment-45622</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 18:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/carolberg/author-news/icon-celebrating-fantasy-in-a-fantastic-place#comment-45622</guid>
		<description>I'm glad you had a good time at ICon, Carol. You deserve the GoH honor!

How interesting to hear about a con experience in another country. I wish I had the resources to attend more cons period, never mind one outside the USA! Sounds like they really ran things well. If only the local cons could be so good...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad you had a good time at ICon, Carol. You deserve the GoH honor!</p>
<p>How interesting to hear about a con experience in another country. I wish I had the resources to attend more cons period, never mind one outside the USA! Sounds like they really ran things well. If only the local cons could be so good&#8230;</p>
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