What percentage of the child and teen prostitutes are female, what percent are male, and do the male ones somehow magically not grow up so they can fit your figure of 1%? And moreover, do you have an actual study that backs up this 1% or is it something you came up with to suit your argument?

Even taking as granted that the clientelle is 100% male, given popular statistics, roughly 10% of that should be gay, so you’d expect about 10% of the prostitutes to be men, unless somehow magically gay men are 90% less likely to use prostitutes than straight men. So I think we’re talking about 10% which is certainly not a majority but still a significant minority and one that doesn’t deserve to be pish-toshed. And in this country, I’m fairly certain that the percentage of adult male prostitutes is higher than the percentage of child prostitutes of either gender, so again, the “women and children” construction is rather telling.

As for my friend and whether he felt empowered, he didn’t use that word, nor did he use the word “ashamed” either. Mostly he talked about it matter-of-factly as germane to the current subject of conversation, basically talking about it as anyone would a past unpleasant job that they were glad was over.

One thing I’ll question right out in public is the insistence on “women and children” in the whole business about the sex trade while ignoring men. Do male child and teen prostitutes somehow magically never grow up? Or do feminists simply have no use for someone once they get beard stubble? Every once and a while you get an “oh yes, and men too” but it sounds like a distinctly patronizing afterthought, and more than a little ironic given the past insistence on gender equity in language.

By pointing out that a problem affects a group who are almost entirely women, and which is perpetuated almost entirely by and for the benefit of men, women apparently automatically invalidate everything they say about the problem by not talking at least 50% of the time about the 1% of the problem being experienced by men. Dear God, what about the men?

And your friend who was turning tricks — who was he turning them for, men or women? Let me guess. And didn’t he feel empowered by doing it, just like a female prostitute supposedly does?

Just because facts and stats have been “gathered and analyzed” for lo these many decades does not mean they should be taken as holy writ, or for that matter, that they shouldn’t be occasionally reanalyzed and questioned. As I can report from my own college time in the late eighties and early nineties, the Women’s Studies professors were touting as gospel truth theories which the Anthropology professors, and the women anthro professors especially, found to be quaint, antiquated and just plain wrong. One acronym: ERV. And mind you, this is twenty years past.

One thing I’ll question right out in public is the insistence on “women and children” in the whole business about the sex trade while ignoring men. Do male child and teen prostitutes somehow magically never grow up? Or do feminists simply have no use for someone once they get beard stubble? Every once and a while you get an “oh yes, and men too” but it sounds like a distinctly patronizing afterthought, and more than a little ironic given the past insistence on gender equity in language.

I had a friend in graduate school who’d formerly “turned tricks” as he put it, and was pretty unapologetic about his past history. Of course I think part of the reason why he was talking about it was that the support network for men was and is about nil, so talking with friends was probably his only option for sorting out his feelings.

Getting back to the subject of the new Whedon project, I’m pretty confident that, while Dushko will be the star, she’ll also be part of an ensemble cast and we’ll get to see some of these same issues explored with the male characters as well.

Though I’m also pretty certain that the feminist bloggers will be more upset about her character having sex while there are consent issues than the same thing happening with the mindwiped male characters because after all, they’re guys, so who cares.

Yes, it’s bad when women dress like whores because they think it’s sexy, but I see women who like pretty clothes and makeup and jewelry often treated the same way. Empty-headed little fembot! Look at the way she dresses! What a whore - she should respect herself! Bleh.

You know Laurie — I see this invoked all the time by women who are uncomfortable with feminist crit. But in all truth, in all my years as a women and a feminist, I have NEVER seen it in action.

Of course, this may be something that came along later, when I’d moved along from school, etc., and into adult life? So I’m missing this?

However, I do spend a lot of time on university campuses, and some of that time is spent in the sports and recreation center or the gymn, or whatever the facility for faculty, staff and students to use for workouts and physical fitness. What I have observed, overhearing whether or not I want to, cell phone convos, grrlz tawkin 2 grrlz, is how they, dressed with their slut stamp prominently centered in the back thong of the thong, their gorgeous cleavage entirely prominent and bare to the eyes, etc., them criticizing other women for acting or behaving or looking like sluts — while they use language that isn’t permitted on broadcast networks — where much now is permitted.

So generally to take the position that women who thoughtfully consider gender issues, especially around women, children and sex are anti-sex, don’t like other women, etc. is just, well, generally strawman logic and not at all convicing in dialog or debate. Particularly when put up against facts and stats that have been gathered an analyzed now, for many decades in terms of conditions of woman and children around the world, and in this nation too.

Love, C.

Kevin touched on something that really chaps my hide. Women are the harshest critics of other women, especially when it comes to the girly fembot label. One of the ugliest things I see among the hardcore feminists is vitriol toward women who just don’t take as hard a line about it. Yes, it’s bad when women dress like whores because they think it’s sexy, but I see women who like pretty clothes and makeup and jewelry often treated the same way. Empty-headed little fembot! Look at the way she dresses! What a whore - she should respect herself! Bleh.

That is one reason I don’t frequent those type of boards and avoid the subject like the plague. I think it’s important to be cognizant of the plight of women but I also think a lot of women take that too far and end up adding to it. Tearing each other down is bad, and, regardless of the reason, we all do it to each other far too often.

All that said, I think it’s a good idea to bring womens’ issues to light and discuss them. If you present it in the form of entertainment, I have no problem with it. Just because you show it doesn’t mean you glorify it. He’s shining a light on a social problem, if nothing else. And we’ll probably have a fine time watching it as he does.

Once upon a time there was a show called The Muppet Show. It’s stars were a green felt frog and his love interest and co-star, a beautiful vivacious strong-willed female pig, who had long blond hair and purple starlet gloves and made the international hit not quite international in that Miss Piggy hit just about every taboo button in Saudi Arabia: It’s a pig! It’s an unveiled woman! And she’s strong-willed and sexually insistent! Eek! Eek!

So the creators of Barney the Purple Dinosaur looked at all the possible animals to use as characters and realized that all natural and most mythological animals were somebody or other’s sacred wubby and/or those somebody’s neighbor(s)’ pantomime devil. And the same was true with just about every color combination except the purple and green, which the pig and frog had used effectively.

But dinosaurs were too new to be used for any national flag or religion, and they were popular with kids, so a green and purple dinosaur would sell like hotcakes! And maybe another show with monochrome alien babies in jumpers with television aerials on their heads!

Hence Creeping Barneyism, the sort of ugly art (and I use the term loosely) created when the prime directive is not to create something beautiful or just plain entertaining but to not offend anyone. You see this sort of thing as well in public art where the artist is told to create a single figure representative of all people and you get some sort of multicolored spawn of a forced mating between The Patchwork Girl and The Partridge Family Bus. We’ve got one of those in San Jose outside the art museum (it’s informally known as the Gumby Monster) and there’s another one’s giant freakish head popping out of the lawn by the San Diego Convention Center.

As for what this has to do with toys from the toybox, the flipside of The Silver Metal Lover is The Velveteen Rabbit: Mr. Universe’s love for his mechanical bride may be tragic, immature and a host of other things we can cluck our tongues about disapprovingly, but this doesn’t touch on whether it was true, or to use the Veveteen Rabbit’s word, real.

I’d say it was, for the simple reason that what motivated him most was “Can’t Stop the Signal”–information wanting to be free. And in his death, his bride became his voice, literally, passing on the crucial information to Mal and the other heroes because the killers (like some here) had looked at the bride and dismissed her as a meaningless sex toy and nothing more.

http://whedonesque.com/comments/14639#195462

Let me be clear on one point: I know I have it easy. I’ve done well, and I’m grateful that I can weather a long winter. Compared to what the studios have made off me my share is tiny and cute, but I’m in no position to complain. But take that differential, apply it to someone who’s just getting by when they deserve better. Now take it and… well, just take it, ‘cause when it comes to the internet and the emerging media there’s nothing there for the artists. There’s no precedent; these media didn’t exist the last time a contract was negotiated. We’re not just talking about an unfair deal, we’re talking about no deal at all. Four cents from the sale of a DVD (the standing WGA deal) sounds exactly as paltry as it is, but in a decade DVD may have gone the way of the eight-track. We have to protect the rights of the people who tell the stories, however they’re told. I’m never gonna be as articulate as Shawn or Brian (both of whom have been linked here, I believe), but I am just as committed. And a lot phlegmier.

There’s much more and pertinent to anyone who hopes and expects to continue getting paid for writing or hopes and expects to get paid for writing in the furture.

Love, C