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	<title>Comments on: Critique #107 &#8212; Todd Hauskins</title>
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	<description>Writing and Reading. Commerce and Art. Fantasy and Science Fiction. Discuss.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:41:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Sherwood Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-107#comment-9185</link>
		<dc:creator>Sherwood Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jan 2007 19:48:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-107/#comment-9185</guid>
		<description>The others covered my points--whose, not who's in first sentence, taking too long to get there--tires forty years old would be rotten, unless there's magic afoot.  All that said, I'd stll read on, because I am very intrigued.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The others covered my points&#8211;whose, not who&#8217;s in first sentence, taking too long to get there&#8211;tires forty years old would be rotten, unless there&#8217;s magic afoot.  All that said, I&#8217;d stll read on, because I am very intrigued.</p>
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		<title>By: Debbie White</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-107#comment-9099</link>
		<dc:creator>Debbie White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jan 2007 00:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-107/#comment-9099</guid>
		<description>I noticed what the others have already pointed out, but here are a few nit-picky points:

I don't mind, but, if you truly wanted a '13-line critique', you should have stopped at the line "...but nothing of the sort happened."  Which is an intriguing line to end the page on.

I believe that, technically, you don't need that comma in your first sentence.  This sentence might read better if you made it into two sentences.

Finally, on your last sentence:
1) if this is from Jerry's POV, I believe that you are moving out of his POV when you say it like that ("Being that Jerry is a human being...").
2) if this is meant as an omniscient comment from the author, I must point out that I would not have opened the box and I think I qualify as a human being. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I noticed what the others have already pointed out, but here are a few nit-picky points:</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t mind, but, if you truly wanted a &#8216;13-line critique&#8217;, you should have stopped at the line &#8220;&#8230;but nothing of the sort happened.&#8221;  Which is an intriguing line to end the page on.</p>
<p>I believe that, technically, you don&#8217;t need that comma in your first sentence.  This sentence might read better if you made it into two sentences.</p>
<p>Finally, on your last sentence:<br />
1) if this is from Jerry&#8217;s POV, I believe that you are moving out of his POV when you say it like that (&#8221;Being that Jerry is a human being&#8230;&#8221;).<br />
2) if this is meant as an omniscient comment from the author, I must point out that I would not have opened the box and I think I qualify as a human being. <img src='http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Todd Hauskins</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-107#comment-9090</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Hauskins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-107/#comment-9090</guid>
		<description>This is all very good advice. I will definitely use it to rewrite. There may very well be a supernatural element to the box or whatever is inside, but the condition and age of the car is not important so out it goes. And you are absolutely right, I don't know much about cars. Thank you again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is all very good advice. I will definitely use it to rewrite. There may very well be a supernatural element to the box or whatever is inside, but the condition and age of the car is not important so out it goes. And you are absolutely right, I don&#8217;t know much about cars. Thank you again.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Andrew Murphy</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-107#comment-9089</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Andrew Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:29:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-107/#comment-9089</guid>
		<description>What Kate just said -- it's an important plot point.

However, it's unbelievable that such a thing could occur in a busy garage.  A new employee told to move the car in slot X and finding a 40-year-old car in cherry condition (or at least driveable) would assume it has at least somewhat recently been moved and cared for.  About the only way around that is to use the dusty storage locker business, or maybe one of those new automated garages that moves cars on platforms.

Also, if the interval of "40" isn't crucial to the story, it would give more flavor to give the make and model of car.  Even if the story is read ten years later, would it matter that the car is now 50?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What Kate just said &#8212; it&#8217;s an important plot point.</p>
<p>However, it&#8217;s unbelievable that such a thing could occur in a busy garage.  A new employee told to move the car in slot X and finding a 40-year-old car in cherry condition (or at least driveable) would assume it has at least somewhat recently been moved and cared for.  About the only way around that is to use the dusty storage locker business, or maybe one of those new automated garages that moves cars on platforms.</p>
<p>Also, if the interval of &#8220;40&#8243; isn&#8217;t crucial to the story, it would give more flavor to give the make and model of car.  Even if the story is read ten years later, would it matter that the car is now 50?</p>
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		<title>By: Kate Elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-107#comment-9085</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 17:55:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-107/#comment-9085</guid>
		<description>and one last thing - because you've gotten some good input above - if the car has been sitting there for 40 years and is in pristine condition, then that is a very very very important plot point, as it suggests a supernatural agency</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and one last thing - because you&#8217;ve gotten some good input above - if the car has been sitting there for 40 years and is in pristine condition, then that is a very very very important plot point, as it suggests a supernatural agency</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Adkins</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-107#comment-9083</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Adkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 17:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-107/#comment-9083</guid>
		<description>I just have to offer some advice on this one.

First, nothing wrong with a good "old car" story. But remember, RESEARCH and WRITE WHAT YOU KNOW.

My family owns a salvage and my dad buys and trades old musclecars. Last week he sold 30 cars, 20 of which had been in storage for about 1 year for some, to almost 14 for others.  And trust me, the varying conditions of a car that goes unmoved and unstarted for even a couple of years, especially a carburated one, even in a climate-controlled environment, will make you appreciate a ten-year old running Kia like a thirsty man appreciates...well you get the gist.

So-- forty years? So it is at least a '67 or older. By the way, what kind of car? Was it older than '67? For some reason, I pictured a big 4-door sedan, like a mid to late sixties ford Galaxy or something from the plymouth lineup, something basically worthless. But that's just me. Still, people are gonna read this who know your subject and they're going to wonder. But starting it up and driving? Trust me. You're gonna need some tools and tires and a tow chain to move that car. And that would be a funny story in itself! Especially for the inexperienced employee entrusted to the task. Trust the first post by Kevin. He's definitely on the right track with his advice.

Now, you may not intend to carry on further with your story, but if you do, go hang out in a salvage, or a garage where some old cars are being stored, and then come back and write your story.  You'll be mildly enlightened by the results of your research.

And if you don't pursue this, you and everyone else (myself included) should always write what you know or simply do the research. But of course, I can't tell you how to write your story, others here are far more qualified. I kind of like the idea you presented. If it were reworked, I'd probably read it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just have to offer some advice on this one.</p>
<p>First, nothing wrong with a good &#8220;old car&#8221; story. But remember, RESEARCH and WRITE WHAT YOU KNOW.</p>
<p>My family owns a salvage and my dad buys and trades old musclecars. Last week he sold 30 cars, 20 of which had been in storage for about 1 year for some, to almost 14 for others.  And trust me, the varying conditions of a car that goes unmoved and unstarted for even a couple of years, especially a carburated one, even in a climate-controlled environment, will make you appreciate a ten-year old running Kia like a thirsty man appreciates&#8230;well you get the gist.</p>
<p>So&#8211; forty years? So it is at least a &#8216;67 or older. By the way, what kind of car? Was it older than &#8216;67? For some reason, I pictured a big 4-door sedan, like a mid to late sixties ford Galaxy or something from the plymouth lineup, something basically worthless. But that&#8217;s just me. Still, people are gonna read this who know your subject and they&#8217;re going to wonder. But starting it up and driving? Trust me. You&#8217;re gonna need some tools and tires and a tow chain to move that car. And that would be a funny story in itself! Especially for the inexperienced employee entrusted to the task. Trust the first post by Kevin. He&#8217;s definitely on the right track with his advice.</p>
<p>Now, you may not intend to carry on further with your story, but if you do, go hang out in a salvage, or a garage where some old cars are being stored, and then come back and write your story.  You&#8217;ll be mildly enlightened by the results of your research.</p>
<p>And if you don&#8217;t pursue this, you and everyone else (myself included) should always write what you know or simply do the research. But of course, I can&#8217;t tell you how to write your story, others here are far more qualified. I kind of like the idea you presented. If it were reworked, I&#8217;d probably read it!</p>
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		<title>By: Kate Elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-107#comment-9051</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 07:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-107/#comment-9051</guid>
		<description>What Gyp said.  In other circumstances, I would have stopped right at the who's/whose mistake.

Try again.  Slow down.  I think you have a good situation, but Kevin is right that you have to set it up properly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What Gyp said.  In other circumstances, I would have stopped right at the who&#8217;s/whose mistake.</p>
<p>Try again.  Slow down.  I think you have a good situation, but Kevin is right that you have to set it up properly.</p>
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		<title>By: Gyp Oriens</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-107#comment-9038</link>
		<dc:creator>Gyp Oriens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 01:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-107/#comment-9038</guid>
		<description>"who's" = "who is"

"whose" = possessive

Having such a simple mistake in your first sentence isn't very good at all.

Not much else to say; I think Mr. Murphy covered a lot already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;who&#8217;s&#8221; = &#8220;who is&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;whose&#8221; = possessive</p>
<p>Having such a simple mistake in your first sentence isn&#8217;t very good at all.</p>
<p>Not much else to say; I think Mr. Murphy covered a lot already.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Andrew Murphy</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-107#comment-9029</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Andrew Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 23:47:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-107/#comment-9029</guid>
		<description>Todd,

Sometimes, unfortunately, I have to codify rules of writing which I've known internally but only suddenly realize on reading something.  It's one of those moments.  This is the main trouble with this sample:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;strong&gt;An Enigma wrapped in a Mystery shrouded with a Question veiled in Swiss Cheese&lt;/strong&gt; or, more simply, &lt;strong&gt;Unbelievable Foreshadowing&lt;/strong&gt;
It's fine when a lioness whelps in the street or the moon turns to blood, but when the rain of frogs suddenly gets up and does a full production number of "The Michigan Rag," it's a little bit unbelievable.  The only thing more unbelievable is the protagonist writing this off as something of no interest.  This doesn't mean you can't have a "'Curiouser and curiouser,' said Alice" moment, but after more than six impossible things before breakfast, Alice should finally go, 'WTF?'&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Okay, ennumerating the wacky things, it's a standard trope for the new guy on guard duty to deal with the old crap that's been there forever and discover the marvelous McGuffin, but a car that's been in a garage for forty years and no one has noticed?  Even if there is some office that's been paying the bill monthly like clockwork, someone would have known about it, even if it was just called "Old reliable" by the accounting department.

That can be dealt with, but the next magical mysterious thing is the condition of the car.  Not only does it seem to have no dirt or cobwebs, but the tires haven't gone flat in forty years, nor has the gas gotten screwed up.  Having a car that's been garaged for twenty years now having to have seals redone so it can run, this isn't believable at all.

Then the ominous trepidation of the protagonist.  I can believe him writing this off, but not after the other impossible omens.

Then there's the mysterious box in the trunk.  First, just call it a shoe box.  They had those forty years ago.  Next, it's amazing that the duct tape hasn't fused.  But most of all, the mysterious warning message?  If someone wanted to bury something, there have to be better places to entomb it than a garaged car.

Individually, these don't work, but stacked all together, they become impossible.  I might turn the page from curiousity, but only to figure out which cliche is inside, and as an editor, I certainly wouldn't buy it.

Sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todd,</p>
<p>Sometimes, unfortunately, I have to codify rules of writing which I&#8217;ve known internally but only suddenly realize on reading something.  It&#8217;s one of those moments.  This is the main trouble with this sample:</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>An Enigma wrapped in a Mystery shrouded with a Question veiled in Swiss Cheese</strong> or, more simply, <strong>Unbelievable Foreshadowing</strong><br />
It&#8217;s fine when a lioness whelps in the street or the moon turns to blood, but when the rain of frogs suddenly gets up and does a full production number of &#8220;The Michigan Rag,&#8221; it&#8217;s a little bit unbelievable.  The only thing more unbelievable is the protagonist writing this off as something of no interest.  This doesn&#8217;t mean you can&#8217;t have a &#8220;&#8216;Curiouser and curiouser,&#8217; said Alice&#8221; moment, but after more than six impossible things before breakfast, Alice should finally go, &#8216;WTF?&#8217;</p></blockquote>
<p>Okay, ennumerating the wacky things, it&#8217;s a standard trope for the new guy on guard duty to deal with the old crap that&#8217;s been there forever and discover the marvelous McGuffin, but a car that&#8217;s been in a garage for forty years and no one has noticed?  Even if there is some office that&#8217;s been paying the bill monthly like clockwork, someone would have known about it, even if it was just called &#8220;Old reliable&#8221; by the accounting department.</p>
<p>That can be dealt with, but the next magical mysterious thing is the condition of the car.  Not only does it seem to have no dirt or cobwebs, but the tires haven&#8217;t gone flat in forty years, nor has the gas gotten screwed up.  Having a car that&#8217;s been garaged for twenty years now having to have seals redone so it can run, this isn&#8217;t believable at all.</p>
<p>Then the ominous trepidation of the protagonist.  I can believe him writing this off, but not after the other impossible omens.</p>
<p>Then there&#8217;s the mysterious box in the trunk.  First, just call it a shoe box.  They had those forty years ago.  Next, it&#8217;s amazing that the duct tape hasn&#8217;t fused.  But most of all, the mysterious warning message?  If someone wanted to bury something, there have to be better places to entomb it than a garaged car.</p>
<p>Individually, these don&#8217;t work, but stacked all together, they become impossible.  I might turn the page from curiousity, but only to figure out which cliche is inside, and as an editor, I certainly wouldn&#8217;t buy it.</p>
<p>Sorry.</p>
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