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	<title>Comments on: Critique #113 &#8212; Joy Hersey</title>
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	<description>Writing and Reading. Commerce and Art. Fantasy and Science Fiction. Discuss.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Carlotta Zane</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-113#comment-25208</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlotta Zane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2007 01:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/critique-113-2/#comment-25208</guid>
		<description>Hello, Joy, One thing in your work I was thinking about commenting on was the lack of variation in sentence structure.  Then I read your statement, â€œI find I join alot [sic] of sentences with â€œandâ€ because Iâ€™m having a little trouble avoiding too many â€œIâ€ statements. The very first version of this had every other sentence beginning with â€œIâ€. Any suggestions on getting around that would be greatly appreciated.â€  

I think I can help you with that.

One characteristic of this brief sample of your writing is that much that could be directly described is filtered through the narratorâ€™s perceptions â€“ and thatâ€™s one big reason there are so many Iâ€™s in it.  

What Iâ€™m going to do here is not meant to re-write your story.  Itâ€™s meant to give you some examples from your text that will shine a light on getting rid of an overabundance of Iâ€™s and at the same time allow the reader to experience the sensory details in the story first-hand.

You write, â€œMy cloak was drenched and I could feel the water seeping through my clothes to my skin.â€

Another way to say this is, â€œMy cloak was drenched,  Cold water seeped through my clothes to my skin.â€  (This way, we can feel it, too.)

You write, â€œThe sky rumbled and I dashed for shelterâ€

Another choice could be, â€œThe rumbling of thunder sent me dashing for shelter.â€  (This way, itâ€™s a sequence of cause and effect.)

You write, â€œI could not see anything through the haze and the wing beats became louder.â€

You could say, â€œThrough the haze obscuring everything beyond the ruined wall, I could hear the approach of mighty wings.â€  (This shifts the focus from the narrator and what sheâ€™s looking at and hearing, to what is actually happening.  Showing, not telling.)

A couple of other things.  One, do be aware that hearts skipping beats is a very tired clichÃ©.  And two, â€œNothing was making me go back out there again!â€ stopped me every time I read your sample.  It sounds out of key with the rest, it doesnâ€™t add anything to whatâ€™s going on, and the exclamation point, which should be used most judiciously, calls way too much attention to itself.

I do think this is an intriguing beginning.  Iâ€™m curious as to what will happen next.  Best luck with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello, Joy, One thing in your work I was thinking about commenting on was the lack of variation in sentence structure.  Then I read your statement, â€œI find I join alot [sic] of sentences with â€œandâ€ because Iâ€™m having a little trouble avoiding too many â€œIâ€ statements. The very first version of this had every other sentence beginning with â€œIâ€. Any suggestions on getting around that would be greatly appreciated.â€  </p>
<p>I think I can help you with that.</p>
<p>One characteristic of this brief sample of your writing is that much that could be directly described is filtered through the narratorâ€™s perceptions â€“ and thatâ€™s one big reason there are so many Iâ€™s in it.  </p>
<p>What Iâ€™m going to do here is not meant to re-write your story.  Itâ€™s meant to give you some examples from your text that will shine a light on getting rid of an overabundance of Iâ€™s and at the same time allow the reader to experience the sensory details in the story first-hand.</p>
<p>You write, â€œMy cloak was drenched and I could feel the water seeping through my clothes to my skin.â€</p>
<p>Another way to say this is, â€œMy cloak was drenched,  Cold water seeped through my clothes to my skin.â€  (This way, we can feel it, too.)</p>
<p>You write, â€œThe sky rumbled and I dashed for shelterâ€</p>
<p>Another choice could be, â€œThe rumbling of thunder sent me dashing for shelter.â€  (This way, itâ€™s a sequence of cause and effect.)</p>
<p>You write, â€œI could not see anything through the haze and the wing beats became louder.â€</p>
<p>You could say, â€œThrough the haze obscuring everything beyond the ruined wall, I could hear the approach of mighty wings.â€  (This shifts the focus from the narrator and what sheâ€™s looking at and hearing, to what is actually happening.  Showing, not telling.)</p>
<p>A couple of other things.  One, do be aware that hearts skipping beats is a very tired clichÃ©.  And two, â€œNothing was making me go back out there again!â€ stopped me every time I read your sample.  It sounds out of key with the rest, it doesnâ€™t add anything to whatâ€™s going on, and the exclamation point, which should be used most judiciously, calls way too much attention to itself.</p>
<p>I do think this is an intriguing beginning.  Iâ€™m curious as to what will happen next.  Best luck with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Debbie White</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-113#comment-9962</link>
		<dc:creator>Debbie White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 02:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/critique-113-2/#comment-9962</guid>
		<description>Joy, I apologize: I don't think I explained my suggestion as well as I could.  There is nothing wrong with using compound sentences.  However, paragraphs tend to read a little better if you vary the length of sentences so that some are long and some are short.  You can also use the sentence length to help build tension or the opposite.  I suggested shortening some of the sentences because this section of the story sounds like it's supposed to be more tense and faster-paced, with a bad storm and a dragon landing.  Your compound sentences can very easily be made shorter by dropping the 'and' and placing a period there instead.  Below is an example of what I mean.

[Note: I don't think you overused "I" at the beginning of the sentences, but I did a few "beginning with 'I'" cuts in this sample since you asked about that.  I also did not correct the other things that were talked about in earlier posts.]

"I managed to make it safely under what was left of the second floor when lightning split the sky and the rain came down even harder. Nothing was making me go back out there again! Over the pounding of the rain&lt;strong&gt;,&lt;/strong&gt; I heard something else. It sounded like wings but belonging to something much larger than a bird. I could not see anything through the haze&lt;strong&gt;.&lt;/strong&gt;  The wing beats became louder. &lt;strong&gt;...&lt;/strong&gt; Suddenly&lt;strong&gt;,&lt;/strong&gt; a small dragon landed in the courtyard.  &lt;strong&gt;...&lt;/strong&gt; My heart skip a few beats. The sight of those wondrous creatures, large or small, always filled me with awe."

I hope I was able to make my explanation more helpful this time.  Good luck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joy, I apologize: I don&#8217;t think I explained my suggestion as well as I could.  There is nothing wrong with using compound sentences.  However, paragraphs tend to read a little better if you vary the length of sentences so that some are long and some are short.  You can also use the sentence length to help build tension or the opposite.  I suggested shortening some of the sentences because this section of the story sounds like it&#8217;s supposed to be more tense and faster-paced, with a bad storm and a dragon landing.  Your compound sentences can very easily be made shorter by dropping the &#8216;and&#8217; and placing a period there instead.  Below is an example of what I mean.</p>
<p>[Note: I don't think you overused "I" at the beginning of the sentences, but I did a few "beginning with 'I'" cuts in this sample since you asked about that.  I also did not correct the other things that were talked about in earlier posts.]</p>
<p>&#8220;I managed to make it safely under what was left of the second floor when lightning split the sky and the rain came down even harder. Nothing was making me go back out there again! Over the pounding of the rain<strong>,</strong> I heard something else. It sounded like wings but belonging to something much larger than a bird. I could not see anything through the haze<strong>.</strong>  The wing beats became louder. <strong>&#8230;</strong> Suddenly<strong>,</strong> a small dragon landed in the courtyard.  <strong>&#8230;</strong> My heart skip a few beats. The sight of those wondrous creatures, large or small, always filled me with awe.&#8221;</p>
<p>I hope I was able to make my explanation more helpful this time.  Good luck.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Andrew Murphy</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-113#comment-9954</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Andrew Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Feb 2007 20:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/critique-113-2/#comment-9954</guid>
		<description>Joy,

You did a nice job of avoiding too much "I" construction, and personally I'm not that upset by compound/complex sentences, using a lot of them myself.

The way to avoid to much "I" or even the third-person alternation of "he" and "proper name" is to simply get to the dialogue.  If there isn't anyone else to talk to, this is why there are so many characters who talk to god, their pet/familiar, or alternately the audience/reader (old fashioned, but a personal favorite).  Asides about whatnot can help to gloss over "and then I saw a bush and a tree and a couple more bushes and..." all the assorted minutia that actually happen but aren't as entertaining to read about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joy,</p>
<p>You did a nice job of avoiding too much &#8220;I&#8221; construction, and personally I&#8217;m not that upset by compound/complex sentences, using a lot of them myself.</p>
<p>The way to avoid to much &#8220;I&#8221; or even the third-person alternation of &#8220;he&#8221; and &#8220;proper name&#8221; is to simply get to the dialogue.  If there isn&#8217;t anyone else to talk to, this is why there are so many characters who talk to god, their pet/familiar, or alternately the audience/reader (old fashioned, but a personal favorite).  Asides about whatnot can help to gloss over &#8220;and then I saw a bush and a tree and a couple more bushes and&#8230;&#8221; all the assorted minutia that actually happen but aren&#8217;t as entertaining to read about.</p>
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		<title>By: Joy Hersey</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-113#comment-9950</link>
		<dc:creator>Joy Hersey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Feb 2007 20:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/critique-113-2/#comment-9950</guid>
		<description>The narrator not being immediately afraid of the dragon is a quirk of the character which I explain later in the story. First comes the awe/curiousity then the realization/fear sets in.

The "purple in colour" is the overly descriptive nature again. Will work on that. 

I find I join alot of sentences with "and" because I'm having a little trouble avoiding too many "I" statements. The very first version of this had every other sentence beginning with "I".  Any suggestions on getting around that would be greatly appreciated. I'll also be getting to the library soon to get a grammer and punctuation book. :) Thank you for the help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The narrator not being immediately afraid of the dragon is a quirk of the character which I explain later in the story. First comes the awe/curiousity then the realization/fear sets in.</p>
<p>The &#8220;purple in colour&#8221; is the overly descriptive nature again. Will work on that. </p>
<p>I find I join alot of sentences with &#8220;and&#8221; because I&#8217;m having a little trouble avoiding too many &#8220;I&#8221; statements. The very first version of this had every other sentence beginning with &#8220;I&#8221;.  Any suggestions on getting around that would be greatly appreciated. I&#8217;ll also be getting to the library soon to get a grammer and punctuation book. <img src='http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> Thank you for the help.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate Elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-113#comment-9864</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Feb 2007 06:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/critique-113-2/#comment-9864</guid>
		<description>What I particularly see in this new version is how strongly the forward motion of the action now moves.  Each sentence leads directly to the next, so I always know where I (the reader) am going.  I think there is significant improvement between this and the previous version.  Good show!

(I agree with Kevin and Debbie's comments about language, and you'll continue to tweak this, but I think now you can really go through the rest of the story with that so called fine tooth comb and then see how much it has improved.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I particularly see in this new version is how strongly the forward motion of the action now moves.  Each sentence leads directly to the next, so I always know where I (the reader) am going.  I think there is significant improvement between this and the previous version.  Good show!</p>
<p>(I agree with Kevin and Debbie&#8217;s comments about language, and you&#8217;ll continue to tweak this, but I think now you can really go through the rest of the story with that so called fine tooth comb and then see how much it has improved.)</p>
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		<title>By: Debbie White</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-113#comment-9861</link>
		<dc:creator>Debbie White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Feb 2007 01:54:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/critique-113-2/#comment-9861</guid>
		<description>This is better but could be better still with a few more tweaks.

Kevin already pointed out that you could cut "purple in color" to "purple."

Commas are our friends if used in the correct places.  Your main problem is joined sentences.  If you have two sentences joined by an "and," then you need to put a comma before the "and."

&lt;blockquote&gt;My cloak was drenched&lt;strong&gt;,&lt;/strong&gt; and I could feel the water seeping through my clothes to my skin. ....  The sky rumbled&lt;strong&gt;,&lt;/strong&gt; and I dashed for shelter. .... Over the pounding of the rain&lt;strong&gt;,&lt;/strong&gt; I heard something else. .... I could not see anything through the haze&lt;strong&gt;,&lt;/strong&gt; and the wing beats became louder.  I continued to peer out through the rain&lt;strong&gt;,&lt;/strong&gt; and suddenly a small dragon landed in the courtyard.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You use a lot of joined sentences.  You might wish to break some of these joined sentences down into singles, especially after your POV hears the wing beats and you want to increase the tension of the story.

&lt;blockquote&gt;It sounded like wings but belonging to something much larger than a bird.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is an awkward sentence.  You are also talking about the dragon's wing size before the POV can see the wings.  Perhaps "It sounded like wings but much louder than for a bird."?

&lt;blockquote&gt;I could feel my heart skip a few beats.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You can drop the "I could feel."  "My heart skipped a few beats" is sufficient.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Nothing was making me go back out there again!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I found the change in verb tense in this one sentence a bit jarring.  Perhaps "Nothing could make me got out there again!" or something like that would be better?

Keep at it.  This is getting better. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is better but could be better still with a few more tweaks.</p>
<p>Kevin already pointed out that you could cut &#8220;purple in color&#8221; to &#8220;purple.&#8221;</p>
<p>Commas are our friends if used in the correct places.  Your main problem is joined sentences.  If you have two sentences joined by an &#8220;and,&#8221; then you need to put a comma before the &#8220;and.&#8221;</p>
<blockquote><p>My cloak was drenched<strong>,</strong> and I could feel the water seeping through my clothes to my skin. &#8230;.  The sky rumbled<strong>,</strong> and I dashed for shelter. &#8230;. Over the pounding of the rain<strong>,</strong> I heard something else. &#8230;. I could not see anything through the haze<strong>,</strong> and the wing beats became louder.  I continued to peer out through the rain<strong>,</strong> and suddenly a small dragon landed in the courtyard.</p></blockquote>
<p>You use a lot of joined sentences.  You might wish to break some of these joined sentences down into singles, especially after your POV hears the wing beats and you want to increase the tension of the story.</p>
<blockquote><p>It sounded like wings but belonging to something much larger than a bird.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is an awkward sentence.  You are also talking about the dragon&#8217;s wing size before the POV can see the wings.  Perhaps &#8220;It sounded like wings but much louder than for a bird.&#8221;?</p>
<blockquote><p>I could feel my heart skip a few beats.</p></blockquote>
<p>You can drop the &#8220;I could feel.&#8221;  &#8220;My heart skipped a few beats&#8221; is sufficient.</p>
<blockquote><p>Nothing was making me go back out there again!</p></blockquote>
<p>I found the change in verb tense in this one sentence a bit jarring.  Perhaps &#8220;Nothing could make me got out there again!&#8221; or something like that would be better?</p>
<p>Keep at it.  This is getting better. <img src='http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Andrew Murphy</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-113#comment-9856</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Andrew Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 21:16:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/critique-113-2/#comment-9856</guid>
		<description>Joy,

The rewrite is much improved, though could stand a use of a pen to redline through redundant word choice.  For example, "purple in color" could be clipped down to simply "purple."  I know a few extra words here and there can help with mood and flow, but some of this is getting in the way of getting to the story.

The narrator also seems rather unafraid of the possiblity of being eaten by the dragon, which I question, but then again, as I've noted earlier, I have a bit of an allergy to the "magical wondrous creature" view of dragons unless it's followed by "that might eat me."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joy,</p>
<p>The rewrite is much improved, though could stand a use of a pen to redline through redundant word choice.  For example, &#8220;purple in color&#8221; could be clipped down to simply &#8220;purple.&#8221;  I know a few extra words here and there can help with mood and flow, but some of this is getting in the way of getting to the story.</p>
<p>The narrator also seems rather unafraid of the possiblity of being eaten by the dragon, which I question, but then again, as I&#8217;ve noted earlier, I have a bit of an allergy to the &#8220;magical wondrous creature&#8221; view of dragons unless it&#8217;s followed by &#8220;that might eat me.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Joy Hersey</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-113#comment-9826</link>
		<dc:creator>Joy Hersey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 04:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/critique-113-2/#comment-9826</guid>
		<description>The dangling modifiers are a bad habit of mine. I just went back and read through some of my other stories and I see that those are just as bad. I do intend to post a rewrite. I'm just reworking it as was suggested to try and get past the fact that I write the way I talk: not always in complete sentences. Not good. Also I personally like a lot of description so my stories are not economical with words. I didn't realize my grammer was so terrible. Thanks for the help. I really do appreciate it.

&lt;em&gt;(ed. note: Joy submitted a rewrite, but since this post is still current, I'm simply adding it below so folk can comment in this posting)&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;Rewrite:&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  The spring rain fell in torrents. My cloak was drenched and I could feel the water seeping through my clothes to my skin. Pushing my way through the trees, I came upon a clearing. There stood what was once a grand manor now fallen into an advanced state of decay. The sky rumbled and I dashed for shelter. I managed to make it safely under what was left of the second floor when lightning split the sky and the rain came down even harder.
Nothing was making me go back out there again! Over the pounding of the rain I heard something else. It sounded like wings but belonging to something much larger than a bird. I could not see anything through the haze and the wing beats became louder. I continued to peer out through the rain and suddenly a small dragon landed in the courtyard. I could feel my heart skip a few beats. The sight of those wondrous creatures, large or small, always filled me with awe. This particular one was light purple in color and about the size of a pair of draft horses. It stopped and blinked at me. The rain glistened on scales that shimmered in the dim light. Those dark eyes regarded me curiously as it marched into my shelter and laid down, curling its tail around its body.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The dangling modifiers are a bad habit of mine. I just went back and read through some of my other stories and I see that those are just as bad. I do intend to post a rewrite. I&#8217;m just reworking it as was suggested to try and get past the fact that I write the way I talk: not always in complete sentences. Not good. Also I personally like a lot of description so my stories are not economical with words. I didn&#8217;t realize my grammer was so terrible. Thanks for the help. I really do appreciate it.</p>
<p><em>(ed. note: Joy submitted a rewrite, but since this post is still current, I&#8217;m simply adding it below so folk can comment in this posting)</em></p>
<p><strong><em>Rewrite:</em></strong></p>
<p>Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  The spring rain fell in torrents. My cloak was drenched and I could feel the water seeping through my clothes to my skin. Pushing my way through the trees, I came upon a clearing. There stood what was once a grand manor now fallen into an advanced state of decay. The sky rumbled and I dashed for shelter. I managed to make it safely under what was left of the second floor when lightning split the sky and the rain came down even harder.<br />
Nothing was making me go back out there again! Over the pounding of the rain I heard something else. It sounded like wings but belonging to something much larger than a bird. I could not see anything through the haze and the wing beats became louder. I continued to peer out through the rain and suddenly a small dragon landed in the courtyard. I could feel my heart skip a few beats. The sight of those wondrous creatures, large or small, always filled me with awe. This particular one was light purple in color and about the size of a pair of draft horses. It stopped and blinked at me. The rain glistened on scales that shimmered in the dim light. Those dark eyes regarded me curiously as it marched into my shelter and laid down, curling its tail around its body.</p>
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		<title>By: Gyp Oriens</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-113#comment-9707</link>
		<dc:creator>Gyp Oriens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 07:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/critique-113-2/#comment-9707</guid>
		<description>Yes! It would do you good to read the part of a grammar book dealing with dangling modifiers, though. Simple grammar stuff like that is very easily fixed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes! It would do you good to read the part of a grammar book dealing with dangling modifiers, though. Simple grammar stuff like that is very easily fixed.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate Elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-113#comment-9691</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Feb 2007 22:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/critique-113-2/#comment-9691</guid>
		<description>Joy, you're doing fine.  Keep working!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joy, you&#8217;re doing fine.  Keep working!</p>
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