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	<title>Comments on: Critique #29:  Don Oestreicher</title>
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	<description>Writing and Reading. Commerce and Art. Fantasy and Science Fiction. Discuss.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Katharine Kerr</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-29#comment-776</link>
		<dc:creator>Katharine Kerr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 00:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The dancing body parts bothered me, too.  We need to see all of her before the narrator focuses on the legs, perhaps.

I do think, though, that jealousy is a perfectly valid theme for a story.  It can set all kinds of drama, usually unpleasant, in motion.    Obsessive detail is one way to lend force to a description of jealousy, but the problem is, it's been overused ever since Robbe-Grillet.  (Have you read his JEALOUSY or JALOUSIE to give it the original punning title?  Something about the rhythms of your prose reminds me of his in that particular book.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The dancing body parts bothered me, too.  We need to see all of her before the narrator focuses on the legs, perhaps.</p>
<p>I do think, though, that jealousy is a perfectly valid theme for a story.  It can set all kinds of drama, usually unpleasant, in motion.    Obsessive detail is one way to lend force to a description of jealousy, but the problem is, it&#8217;s been overused ever since Robbe-Grillet.  (Have you read his JEALOUSY or JALOUSIE to give it the original punning title?  Something about the rhythms of your prose reminds me of his in that particular book.)</p>
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		<title>By: Carol Berg</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-29#comment-769</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Berg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jul 2006 22:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Silently I watch.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I must "third" the comments so far.  And this opening line is really overused.  

 I suspect something more than jealousy, but that's just a feeling.  When he sees the ocean in her eyes - possible at such a distance? - I'm thinking maybe she's a mermaid about to go home:-)

You've got a good eye for details, but with the plethora of them, we can't tell what's important--the beach, the girl, the speaker's reaction.  If we're in his head, we need to know what's bothering him.  No fair hiding it just for "dramatic effect."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Silently I watch.</p></blockquote>
<p>I must &#8220;third&#8221; the comments so far.  And this opening line is really overused.  </p>
<p> I suspect something more than jealousy, but that&#8217;s just a feeling.  When he sees the ocean in her eyes - possible at such a distance? - I&#8217;m thinking maybe she&#8217;s a mermaid about to go home:-)</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve got a good eye for details, but with the plethora of them, we can&#8217;t tell what&#8217;s important&#8211;the beach, the girl, the speaker&#8217;s reaction.  If we&#8217;re in his head, we need to know what&#8217;s bothering him.  No fair hiding it just for &#8220;dramatic effect.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Andrew Murphy</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-29#comment-764</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Andrew Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jul 2006 18:14:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Don,

Cap "Pacific" and drop "ocean."  It's the biggest body of water on the planet.  Everyone knows it by its first name, even if they've never seen it.

I second Sherwood on all of what she said.  I love lyrical descriptions, but they need to serve the story, and your narrator is jealous and upset about his bikini girl being stared at--or apparently not--by a bunch of old fishermen, who must either be gay or puritans to be staring at the toes of a bathing-suit clad lovely standing on the beach talking to them.

Also, one man's lyrical can be another one's overmodified.  You're trying too hard here to convey the beach, rather than just conveying specific images from it.

Also, the sound doesn't penetrate the "silence" but the "distance," and anyway, that's incorrect because she's glancing up to the narrator even if she can't understand what he's saying.

However, if he fell off the cliff at this moment, I wouldn't much care, because the jealous boyfriend story simply bores me, especially since I don't like his voice.

Sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don,</p>
<p>Cap &#8220;Pacific&#8221; and drop &#8220;ocean.&#8221;  It&#8217;s the biggest body of water on the planet.  Everyone knows it by its first name, even if they&#8217;ve never seen it.</p>
<p>I second Sherwood on all of what she said.  I love lyrical descriptions, but they need to serve the story, and your narrator is jealous and upset about his bikini girl being stared at&#8211;or apparently not&#8211;by a bunch of old fishermen, who must either be gay or puritans to be staring at the toes of a bathing-suit clad lovely standing on the beach talking to them.</p>
<p>Also, one man&#8217;s lyrical can be another one&#8217;s overmodified.  You&#8217;re trying too hard here to convey the beach, rather than just conveying specific images from it.</p>
<p>Also, the sound doesn&#8217;t penetrate the &#8220;silence&#8221; but the &#8220;distance,&#8221; and anyway, that&#8217;s incorrect because she&#8217;s glancing up to the narrator even if she can&#8217;t understand what he&#8217;s saying.</p>
<p>However, if he fell off the cliff at this moment, I wouldn&#8217;t much care, because the jealous boyfriend story simply bores me, especially since I don&#8217;t like his voice.</p>
<p>Sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: Sherwood Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-29#comment-749</link>
		<dc:creator>Sherwood Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jul 2006 03:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Don, there's a lot of promise here, but my sense is that you're trying too hard, and the effort is intruding between me and the story.  Lyrical language must serve the story, enhancing the sensory experience, engaging the emotions as well as the mind.  

What I am seeing here are Cassie's body parts taking over the story.  Her legs are "teasing" the ocean foam (I would have thought it would be the other way around...) and then these legs are acting like birds, still for a moment, then hopping around in the water.  Her tongue is dancing around in her mouth.  So far, I'm more grossed out by these images than interested..

Then we pass to the narrator, who seems hysterical with jealousy, and this is not a hook for me, though others might disagree.    I see lots of potential in your writing, and wonder if your first thirteen lines might be better rewritten in a more natural voice, with a hint of what the problem is besides jealousy--and if jealousy is going to be the main problem, I need a reason to be interested.  Again, this might be idiosyncratic--others might consider jealousy a big hook.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don, there&#8217;s a lot of promise here, but my sense is that you&#8217;re trying too hard, and the effort is intruding between me and the story.  Lyrical language must serve the story, enhancing the sensory experience, engaging the emotions as well as the mind.  </p>
<p>What I am seeing here are Cassie&#8217;s body parts taking over the story.  Her legs are &#8220;teasing&#8221; the ocean foam (I would have thought it would be the other way around&#8230;) and then these legs are acting like birds, still for a moment, then hopping around in the water.  Her tongue is dancing around in her mouth.  So far, I&#8217;m more grossed out by these images than interested..</p>
<p>Then we pass to the narrator, who seems hysterical with jealousy, and this is not a hook for me, though others might disagree.    I see lots of potential in your writing, and wonder if your first thirteen lines might be better rewritten in a more natural voice, with a hint of what the problem is besides jealousy&#8211;and if jealousy is going to be the main problem, I need a reason to be interested.  Again, this might be idiosyncratic&#8211;others might consider jealousy a big hook.</p>
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