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	<title>Comments on: Critique #64 Nick Argall</title>
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	<description>Writing and Reading. Commerce and Art. Fantasy and Science Fiction. Discuss.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Theo Neel</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-64#comment-2232</link>
		<dc:creator>Theo Neel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Sep 2006 05:27:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My opinion:  I don't have problem with a modern voice in a not-so-modern piece.  

(Although I'm not sure that it is a not-so-modern setting -- Dune has courtiers and that takes places tens of thousands of years in the future.)

I've never understood the tendency for fantasy writers to feel it necessary to create an archaic-sounding patois.   Most often it gets in the way of the story.  I accept that the genre may lend itself to a more literary voice, but that will depend on the piece.  

In the present case (1st person POV), I'd especially like to hear unaffected vernacular because I don't really believe that there are a lot of people whose self-talk is highly structured and formal.

Which is why the weasel-words also didn't bother me, either.  They seemed part of the narrator's voice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My opinion:  I don&#8217;t have problem with a modern voice in a not-so-modern piece.  </p>
<p>(Although I&#8217;m not sure that it is a not-so-modern setting &#8212; Dune has courtiers and that takes places tens of thousands of years in the future.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never understood the tendency for fantasy writers to feel it necessary to create an archaic-sounding patois.   Most often it gets in the way of the story.  I accept that the genre may lend itself to a more literary voice, but that will depend on the piece.  </p>
<p>In the present case (1st person POV), I&#8217;d especially like to hear unaffected vernacular because I don&#8217;t really believe that there are a lot of people whose self-talk is highly structured and formal.</p>
<p>Which is why the weasel-words also didn&#8217;t bother me, either.  They seemed part of the narrator&#8217;s voice.</p>
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		<title>By: Luther Knox</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-64#comment-2230</link>
		<dc:creator>Luther Knox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Sep 2006 04:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I hate to be a dissenting voice.  

I need to connect with a character or situation to continue reading.  Drawing a portrait of a spoiled despot surrounded by fearful suck-ups makes me wish to be put in the POV of an assassin.  One soon to be successful in freeing this world from another one of our "betters".

I will accord that the meandering style is a reflection of the self-absorbed character suffering a hangover.  

There is a little over-writing 

example:
Massaging my forehead with my hand...

A reader would naturally assume the massaging was done with the hand so you could cut that clause.  If he was massaging was done with an elephant trunk or some other oddity, of course you would point that out.

You did evoke an emotional response from me, so all is not lost, but I wouldn't have read much further unless someone slapped the snot out of the POV character or he was put in a very difficult position other than at the cause of his own excessive consumption.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate to be a dissenting voice.  </p>
<p>I need to connect with a character or situation to continue reading.  Drawing a portrait of a spoiled despot surrounded by fearful suck-ups makes me wish to be put in the POV of an assassin.  One soon to be successful in freeing this world from another one of our &#8220;betters&#8221;.</p>
<p>I will accord that the meandering style is a reflection of the self-absorbed character suffering a hangover.  </p>
<p>There is a little over-writing </p>
<p>example:<br />
Massaging my forehead with my hand&#8230;</p>
<p>A reader would naturally assume the massaging was done with the hand so you could cut that clause.  If he was massaging was done with an elephant trunk or some other oddity, of course you would point that out.</p>
<p>You did evoke an emotional response from me, so all is not lost, but I wouldn&#8217;t have read much further unless someone slapped the snot out of the POV character or he was put in a very difficult position other than at the cause of his own excessive consumption.</p>
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		<title>By: melospiza</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-64#comment-2142</link>
		<dc:creator>melospiza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Aug 2006 15:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-64/#comment-2142</guid>
		<description>Nick,

For me, the fawning courtiers imply a milieu that is not modern, so if it is, you might somehow indicate that early on, so the voice doesn't feel anachronistic.  I still liked the opening--I wouldn't bother commenting if I didn't.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick,</p>
<p>For me, the fawning courtiers imply a milieu that is not modern, so if it is, you might somehow indicate that early on, so the voice doesn&#8217;t feel anachronistic.  I still liked the opening&#8211;I wouldn&#8217;t bother commenting if I didn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Argall</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-64#comment-2131</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Argall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Aug 2006 06:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-64/#comment-2131</guid>
		<description>Beth:
Thanks for the thoughtful critique.  I agree with you about the second and third sentences.

Several of your questions do get answered in the rest of the story (2000 words all up).  In this case, the title probably does help to understand the story, "Day of the Dragon Lord" gives you some idea of who is who.

The final sentence occurs mid-paragraph, I felt it best to be strict about the 13-lines thing.  The rest of the paragraph goes:

 I shifted gears, and converted my stare to 'You really have no idea how much trouble you're in, do you.'  (Some people like to say "A mind is a terrible thing to taste" as if that rather weak pun was terribly funny.  All I can say is that those people have obviously never tried it.)

I'm glad you liked it!

Melospiza:

&lt;i&gt;I want to read more about this hungover ruler about to do something unpleasant, but his diction feels too casual and modernâ€“real pros?&lt;/i&gt;

I was actually aiming for a very contemporary voice for this character.  The reasons for that are not indicated in the story, which is a character study for a larger work.  (Which I hope to finish some day...)  So while the story is intended to be able to stand on its own, some of the things that don't quite fit are attachment points for the larger story.

Good point about the weasel words.  Now I'm trying to work out whether they're an important part of the narrator's voice (he's a bit of a weasel), or if they're reflections of the author's insecurity.  (He's like that.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beth:<br />
Thanks for the thoughtful critique.  I agree with you about the second and third sentences.</p>
<p>Several of your questions do get answered in the rest of the story (2000 words all up).  In this case, the title probably does help to understand the story, &#8220;Day of the Dragon Lord&#8221; gives you some idea of who is who.</p>
<p>The final sentence occurs mid-paragraph, I felt it best to be strict about the 13-lines thing.  The rest of the paragraph goes:</p>
<p> I shifted gears, and converted my stare to &#8216;You really have no idea how much trouble you&#8217;re in, do you.&#8217;  (Some people like to say &#8220;A mind is a terrible thing to taste&#8221; as if that rather weak pun was terribly funny.  All I can say is that those people have obviously never tried it.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad you liked it!</p>
<p>Melospiza:</p>
<p><i>I want to read more about this hungover ruler about to do something unpleasant, but his diction feels too casual and modernâ€“real pros?</i></p>
<p>I was actually aiming for a very contemporary voice for this character.  The reasons for that are not indicated in the story, which is a character study for a larger work.  (Which I hope to finish some day&#8230;)  So while the story is intended to be able to stand on its own, some of the things that don&#8217;t quite fit are attachment points for the larger story.</p>
<p>Good point about the weasel words.  Now I&#8217;m trying to work out whether they&#8217;re an important part of the narrator&#8217;s voice (he&#8217;s a bit of a weasel), or if they&#8217;re reflections of the author&#8217;s insecurity.  (He&#8217;s like that.)</p>
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		<title>By: melospiza</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-64#comment-2109</link>
		<dc:creator>melospiza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:54:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I want to read more about this hungover ruler about to do something unpleasant, but his diction feels too casual and modern--real pros?  There are also too many weasel words--really quite, actually, seemed to, some sort of--that weaken the writing.  And the last line is a direct steal from the old advertising campaign of the United Negro College Fund.  Good luck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to read more about this hungover ruler about to do something unpleasant, but his diction feels too casual and modern&#8211;real pros?  There are also too many weasel words&#8211;really quite, actually, seemed to, some sort of&#8211;that weaken the writing.  And the last line is a direct steal from the old advertising campaign of the United Negro College Fund.  Good luck.</p>
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		<title>By: Beth</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-64#comment-2085</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:20:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/damon-knight/critique-64/#comment-2085</guid>
		<description>I'm intrigued and would definitely read on. The voice is strong, and the writing for the most part was crisp and had good rhythm. I especially liked your description of the courtiers and their various reactions to the king's irritation, while Ezethal remains oblivious. 

A couple of quibbles and reactions:

The prose in the first paragraph could use some tweaking and tightening, imo. The second sentence sounded a bit convoluted to me, as though it had all the right details but in the wrong order. Also, in the third sentence, the phrase 'menacing glare' occurs twice, making for an awkward and unnecessary repetition.

Setting was a bit unclear. A feast of some kind, because there are plates of delicacies, but why the speech-making?

I was surprised to find out he had a hangover. Perhaps consider mentioning this sooner?

Who is Gronthelm? A title might help place him in the story, especially since he's the only one with a name besides Ezethal.

The final sentence confused me. Possibly it makes more sense with the next sentence, but right now I'm wondering what the narrator means by "give up easily"? Give up on Ezethal in general? Or on making him stop talking? Also, what does he mean by "a mind is a terrible thing to waste"? His mind or Ezethal? Does this become clear in the next sentence or two?

Sorry to be so picky. Overall I quite liked the piece and would continue reading to find out poor Ezethal's fate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m intrigued and would definitely read on. The voice is strong, and the writing for the most part was crisp and had good rhythm. I especially liked your description of the courtiers and their various reactions to the king&#8217;s irritation, while Ezethal remains oblivious. </p>
<p>A couple of quibbles and reactions:</p>
<p>The prose in the first paragraph could use some tweaking and tightening, imo. The second sentence sounded a bit convoluted to me, as though it had all the right details but in the wrong order. Also, in the third sentence, the phrase &#8216;menacing glare&#8217; occurs twice, making for an awkward and unnecessary repetition.</p>
<p>Setting was a bit unclear. A feast of some kind, because there are plates of delicacies, but why the speech-making?</p>
<p>I was surprised to find out he had a hangover. Perhaps consider mentioning this sooner?</p>
<p>Who is Gronthelm? A title might help place him in the story, especially since he&#8217;s the only one with a name besides Ezethal.</p>
<p>The final sentence confused me. Possibly it makes more sense with the next sentence, but right now I&#8217;m wondering what the narrator means by &#8220;give up easily&#8221;? Give up on Ezethal in general? Or on making him stop talking? Also, what does he mean by &#8220;a mind is a terrible thing to waste&#8221;? His mind or Ezethal? Does this become clear in the next sentence or two?</p>
<p>Sorry to be so picky. Overall I quite liked the piece and would continue reading to find out poor Ezethal&#8217;s fate.</p>
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