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	<title>Comments on: 11 Things in Fantasy/SF That I Donâ€™t Promise Not to Use (or Keep Using) in My Writing</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/kateelliott/craft/storytelling/11-things-in-fantasysf-that-i-don%e2%80%99t-promise-not-to-use-or-keep-using-in-my-writing/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/definitions/fantasy/11-things-in-fantasysf-that-i-don%e2%80%99t-promise-not-to-use-or-keep-using-in-my-writing/</link>
	<description>Writing and Reading. Commerce and Art. Fantasy and Science Fiction. Discuss.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 03:24:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Shawna R. B. Atteberry &#187; A great site</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/definitions/fantasy/11-things-in-fantasysf-that-i-don%e2%80%99t-promise-not-to-use-or-keep-using-in-my-writing/comment-page-1/#comment-2599</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawna R. B. Atteberry &#187; A great site</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/kateelliott/craft/storytelling/11-things-in-fantasysf-that-i-don%e2%80%99t-promise-not-to-use-or-keep-using-in-my-writing#comment-2599</guid>
		<description>[...] I discovered a great site that I wanted to share with other sci-fi/fantasy writers on my site: DeepGenre. DeepGenre is a collabarative blog where nine authors give help, advice, and insight into the general writing business and the specifics of the sci-fi and fantasy genre. This is the entry that introduced me to the site: Contracts 101: Grant of Rights by Madeline Robbins. I now have an idea of what a contract will look like and be about when I see one. Fantasy writers don&#8217;t miss Kate Elloit&#8217;s 11 Things in Fantasy/SF that I don&#8217;t Promise Not to Use (or Keep Using) in My Writing and Kevin Andrew Murphy&#8217;s 6 More Things I Could do Without in Fantastic Literature and I don&#8217;t plan to use Except to Make Fun of. They also have a  discussion board for those of us writing our first novels. It is well worth time to check out and read.    &#160; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I discovered a great site that I wanted to share with other sci-fi/fantasy writers on my site: DeepGenre. DeepGenre is a collabarative blog where nine authors give help, advice, and insight into the general writing business and the specifics of the sci-fi and fantasy genre. This is the entry that introduced me to the site: Contracts 101: Grant of Rights by Madeline Robbins. I now have an idea of what a contract will look like and be about when I see one. Fantasy writers don&#8217;t miss Kate Elloit&#8217;s 11 Things in Fantasy/SF that I don&#8217;t Promise Not to Use (or Keep Using) in My Writing and Kevin Andrew Murphy&#8217;s 6 More Things I Could do Without in Fantastic Literature and I don&#8217;t plan to use Except to Make Fun of. They also have a  discussion board for those of us writing our first novels. It is well worth time to check out and read.    &nbsp; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Evil_Magus</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/definitions/fantasy/11-things-in-fantasysf-that-i-don%e2%80%99t-promise-not-to-use-or-keep-using-in-my-writing/comment-page-1/#comment-2598</link>
		<dc:creator>Evil_Magus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2006 21:02:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/kateelliott/craft/storytelling/11-things-in-fantasysf-that-i-don%e2%80%99t-promise-not-to-use-or-keep-using-in-my-writing#comment-2598</guid>
		<description>The arguments against stew (at least all of the arguments I've heard of) are not due to the fact that it's eaten and exists, but the fact that it takes at least 5 hours (often-enough even longer) to make, and in very nearly every case of it, that much time is not devoted to making it.  It's just water in a pot, solids in the water, cook (for MAYBE an hour, oftentimes less) and you get a stew.  No.  That's how you get soup.  There's a big difference between a stew and a soup.

As for elves... they just annoy me because, often-enough, they're Tolkienien carbon-copies used by lazy authors to add an element of ramanticism to their writing.  If they have a purpose, then have at it.  I'm REALLY tired of authors doing things just "because Tolkien did it".  Write your own story, not his.  If yours happens to have elves, then fine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The arguments against stew (at least all of the arguments I&#8217;ve heard of) are not due to the fact that it&#8217;s eaten and exists, but the fact that it takes at least 5 hours (often-enough even longer) to make, and in very nearly every case of it, that much time is not devoted to making it.  It&#8217;s just water in a pot, solids in the water, cook (for MAYBE an hour, oftentimes less) and you get a stew.  No.  That&#8217;s how you get soup.  There&#8217;s a big difference between a stew and a soup.</p>
<p>As for elves&#8230; they just annoy me because, often-enough, they&#8217;re Tolkienien carbon-copies used by lazy authors to add an element of ramanticism to their writing.  If they have a purpose, then have at it.  I&#8217;m REALLY tired of authors doing things just &#8220;because Tolkien did it&#8221;.  Write your own story, not his.  If yours happens to have elves, then fine.</p>
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		<title>By: tchernabyelo</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/definitions/fantasy/11-things-in-fantasysf-that-i-don%e2%80%99t-promise-not-to-use-or-keep-using-in-my-writing/comment-page-1/#comment-2597</link>
		<dc:creator>tchernabyelo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/kateelliott/craft/storytelling/11-things-in-fantasysf-that-i-don%e2%80%99t-promise-not-to-use-or-keep-using-in-my-writing#comment-2597</guid>
		<description>About the only thing in Diana Wynn Jones' "Tough Guide To Fantasyland" I really argued with was the stew thing.   As noted, stew is almost universal (I think the exception is the areas of China where fuel was a at premium and where stir-frying was invented - cook quick and hot, over flaring brushgrass etc, rather than simmering on a hearth for a few hours.   Meat, remember, was not something you could have on demand; slaughtering one animal would have to feed a family for weeks or months, hence the need to preserve food, and preserving mostly means salting, and salting means you need to boil the stuff to cook it.

But tea and coffee are other matters.   If you want to have them, or their equivalents, fine, but recognise that you will have to have a world in which it's plausible that they are prevalent.   In a mock-Celtic mock-medieval milieu, where is the tea being grown?   Establish trade, and in quantity, and you can get away with it.   Otherwise... drop it.   Accept that people in medieval times didn't have coffee for breakfast.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About the only thing in Diana Wynn Jones&#8217; &#8220;Tough Guide To Fantasyland&#8221; I really argued with was the stew thing.   As noted, stew is almost universal (I think the exception is the areas of China where fuel was a at premium and where stir-frying was invented - cook quick and hot, over flaring brushgrass etc, rather than simmering on a hearth for a few hours.   Meat, remember, was not something you could have on demand; slaughtering one animal would have to feed a family for weeks or months, hence the need to preserve food, and preserving mostly means salting, and salting means you need to boil the stuff to cook it.</p>
<p>But tea and coffee are other matters.   If you want to have them, or their equivalents, fine, but recognise that you will have to have a world in which it&#8217;s plausible that they are prevalent.   In a mock-Celtic mock-medieval milieu, where is the tea being grown?   Establish trade, and in quantity, and you can get away with it.   Otherwise&#8230; drop it.   Accept that people in medieval times didn&#8217;t have coffee for breakfast.</p>
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		<title>By: Wench</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/definitions/fantasy/11-things-in-fantasysf-that-i-don%e2%80%99t-promise-not-to-use-or-keep-using-in-my-writing/comment-page-1/#comment-2596</link>
		<dc:creator>Wench</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2006 02:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/kateelliott/craft/storytelling/11-things-in-fantasysf-that-i-don%e2%80%99t-promise-not-to-use-or-keep-using-in-my-writing#comment-2596</guid>
		<description>Burnt stew... gamey goatmeat stew... gruel. Whatever. The reason you ought to use earth-type descriptions for food is that you want people to be able to relate to the food, adn we don't relate to a description of "barmoose mash" the way we relate to "oatmeal with milk". So if you want people to relate to the flavor fo the food, you describe it like people will recognize.

Some exceptions work though. Alien foods deserve alien names - if you're talking about something which is rare and you want to evoke the mystery of a flavor the characters have never tried before, or something that has no current real-world equivalent, a weird name works. Then you need to use the propper descriptors then - sweet, salty, sour, bitter, rich. (I use "rich" in place of the propper Japanese term, "Umumi", because not many people know that one...)

I guess it's situational then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Burnt stew&#8230; gamey goatmeat stew&#8230; gruel. Whatever. The reason you ought to use earth-type descriptions for food is that you want people to be able to relate to the food, adn we don&#8217;t relate to a description of &#8220;barmoose mash&#8221; the way we relate to &#8220;oatmeal with milk&#8221;. So if you want people to relate to the flavor fo the food, you describe it like people will recognize.</p>
<p>Some exceptions work though. Alien foods deserve alien names - if you&#8217;re talking about something which is rare and you want to evoke the mystery of a flavor the characters have never tried before, or something that has no current real-world equivalent, a weird name works. Then you need to use the propper descriptors then - sweet, salty, sour, bitter, rich. (I use &#8220;rich&#8221; in place of the propper Japanese term, &#8220;Umumi&#8221;, because not many people know that one&#8230;)</p>
<p>I guess it&#8217;s situational then.</p>
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		<title>By: jay</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/definitions/fantasy/11-things-in-fantasysf-that-i-don%e2%80%99t-promise-not-to-use-or-keep-using-in-my-writing/comment-page-1/#comment-2595</link>
		<dc:creator>jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/kateelliott/craft/storytelling/11-things-in-fantasysf-that-i-don%e2%80%99t-promise-not-to-use-or-keep-using-in-my-writing#comment-2595</guid>
		<description>lol Mark,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol Mark,</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Tiedemann</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/definitions/fantasy/11-things-in-fantasysf-that-i-don%e2%80%99t-promise-not-to-use-or-keep-using-in-my-writing/comment-page-1/#comment-2594</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Tiedemann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 01:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/kateelliott/craft/storytelling/11-things-in-fantasysf-that-i-don%e2%80%99t-promise-not-to-use-or-keep-using-in-my-writing#comment-2594</guid>
		<description>Now broth I like...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now broth I like&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: jay</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/definitions/fantasy/11-things-in-fantasysf-that-i-don%e2%80%99t-promise-not-to-use-or-keep-using-in-my-writing/comment-page-1/#comment-2593</link>
		<dc:creator>jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 09:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/kateelliott/craft/storytelling/11-things-in-fantasysf-that-i-don%e2%80%99t-promise-not-to-use-or-keep-using-in-my-writing#comment-2593</guid>
		<description>Hi everyone,
just wanted to say something.  It seems everyone is writing about stew.....just don't forget you can hve broth too!
lol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi everyone,<br />
just wanted to say something.  It seems everyone is writing about stew&#8230;..just don&#8217;t forget you can hve broth too!<br />
lol</p>
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		<title>By: kateelliott</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/definitions/fantasy/11-things-in-fantasysf-that-i-don%e2%80%99t-promise-not-to-use-or-keep-using-in-my-writing/comment-page-1/#comment-2592</link>
		<dc:creator>kateelliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Aug 2006 05:27:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/kateelliott/craft/storytelling/11-things-in-fantasysf-that-i-don%e2%80%99t-promise-not-to-use-or-keep-using-in-my-writing#comment-2592</guid>
		<description>Hugh, that's a good point about dumplings.

jay, hot is as hot does.  Some people have a narrow range of what they consider attractive and others a much wider range.  I fall into the latter category, in that I tend to write characters who are in some manner - Hollywood-style looks least among them - attractive.

Mark - I object to feudalism, too, although that hasn't stopped me from writing books set in a time frame where some manner of feudalism holds sway.  Since I write both sf and f, I find it interesting that certain readers have clear preferences between the two sub-genres, or approaches, or what have you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hugh, that&#8217;s a good point about dumplings.</p>
<p>jay, hot is as hot does.  Some people have a narrow range of what they consider attractive and others a much wider range.  I fall into the latter category, in that I tend to write characters who are in some manner - Hollywood-style looks least among them - attractive.</p>
<p>Mark - I object to feudalism, too, although that hasn&#8217;t stopped me from writing books set in a time frame where some manner of feudalism holds sway.  Since I write both sf and f, I find it interesting that certain readers have clear preferences between the two sub-genres, or approaches, or what have you.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/definitions/fantasy/11-things-in-fantasysf-that-i-don%e2%80%99t-promise-not-to-use-or-keep-using-in-my-writing/comment-page-1/#comment-2591</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Aug 2006 17:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/kateelliott/craft/storytelling/11-things-in-fantasysf-that-i-don%e2%80%99t-promise-not-to-use-or-keep-using-in-my-writing#comment-2591</guid>
		<description>Dumplings.  How many Earth cultures have some sort of dough wrapped around some sort of filling and boiled in water or broth!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dumplings.  How many Earth cultures have some sort of dough wrapped around some sort of filling and boiled in water or broth!</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Tiedemann</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/definitions/fantasy/11-things-in-fantasysf-that-i-don%e2%80%99t-promise-not-to-use-or-keep-using-in-my-writing/comment-page-1/#comment-2590</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Tiedemann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/kateelliott/craft/storytelling/11-things-in-fantasysf-that-i-don%e2%80%99t-promise-not-to-use-or-keep-using-in-my-writing#comment-2590</guid>
		<description>Now I know.  It's the stew.  I never liked stew.  My mother made it when she couldn't think of anything edible.  This is why I have deep, pre-conscious aversions to fantasy.

All these years, I thought it was the feudalism I objected to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now I know.  It&#8217;s the stew.  I never liked stew.  My mother made it when she couldn&#8217;t think of anything edible.  This is why I have deep, pre-conscious aversions to fantasy.</p>
<p>All these years, I thought it was the feudalism I objected to.</p>
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