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	<title>Comments on: Defining Story</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/laurajmixon/craft/defining-story/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/laurajmixon/craft/defining-story</link>
	<description>Writing and Reading. Commerce and Art. Fantasy and Science Fiction. Discuss.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: LauraJMixon</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/laurajmixon/craft/defining-story#comment-1521</link>
		<dc:creator>LauraJMixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 12:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/laurajmixon/misc/defining-story#comment-1521</guid>
		<description>Lenora, heh!  I'd never seen that version.  Thanks for sharing.


-l.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lenora, heh!  I&#8217;d never seen that version.  Thanks for sharing.</p>
<p>-l.</p>
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		<title>By: Lenora Rose</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/laurajmixon/craft/defining-story#comment-1515</link>
		<dc:creator>Lenora Rose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 04:12:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/laurajmixon/misc/defining-story#comment-1515</guid>
		<description>Overall, a great overview, but in the way one scientific error can nag at a physicist reading hard SF, I kept being distracted by one detail, and thus I have to nitpick:

&lt;a href="http://www.kididdles.com/mouseum/i036.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;It's more than 38 words.&lt;/a&gt;

I've heard that version sung at filk circles and seen a picture book of the complete thing (Possibly short one verse).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Overall, a great overview, but in the way one scientific error can nag at a physicist reading hard SF, I kept being distracted by one detail, and thus I have to nitpick:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.kididdles.com/mouseum/i036.html" rel="nofollow">It&#8217;s more than 38 words.</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard that version sung at filk circles and seen a picture book of the complete thing (Possibly short one verse).</p>
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		<title>By: Velcro City Tourist Board &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Links for 07-08-2006</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/laurajmixon/craft/defining-story#comment-1465</link>
		<dc:creator>Velcro City Tourist Board &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Links for 07-08-2006</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Aug 2006 02:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/laurajmixon/misc/defining-story#comment-1465</guid>
		<description>[...] 2 - Defining Story Laura Mixon at DeepGenre talks about the components of a story. This site is really churning out some great pieces at the moment&#8230;see further down this list. (tags: discussion theme setting character components definition books literature fiction story) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 2 - Defining Story Laura Mixon at DeepGenre talks about the components of a story. This site is really churning out some great pieces at the moment&#8230;see further down this list. (tags: discussion theme setting character components definition books literature fiction story) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: LauraJMixon</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/laurajmixon/craft/defining-story#comment-1458</link>
		<dc:creator>LauraJMixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Aug 2006 15:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/laurajmixon/misc/defining-story#comment-1458</guid>
		<description>Oops -- I posted when I meant to preview.

Mitch, I think you are exactly right.  I think in fact that one of the reasons story is successful in giving meaning to people's lives is precisely because it is entertaining, even silly, sometimes.  Storytelling is not about someone trying to teach lessons; it's about sharing experiences.


-l.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops &#8212; I posted when I meant to preview.</p>
<p>Mitch, I think you are exactly right.  I think in fact that one of the reasons story is successful in giving meaning to people&#8217;s lives is precisely because it is entertaining, even silly, sometimes.  Storytelling is not about someone trying to teach lessons; it&#8217;s about sharing experiences.</p>
<p>-l.</p>
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		<title>By: LauraJMixon</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/laurajmixon/craft/defining-story#comment-1457</link>
		<dc:creator>LauraJMixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Aug 2006 15:06:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/laurajmixon/misc/defining-story#comment-1457</guid>
		<description>Marie, I'd certainly be willing to concede that there is no particular need to extract a story's theme, in order for the writer to write it, nor readers to read and benefit from it ... 

The thing about theme is that it has no meaning without the accompanying characters, setting, and other symbols.  And to focus on any sort of "message" while you're writing your story can actually make it come out mechanical and flat.  Theme has to emerge from the story, not be imposed upon it.  If that's what you are saying, then you and I are in agreement.  

But I find that when people are describing what moved them or grabbed them about a particular work, there was a "something" at the center of it all, and that something can usually be boiled down into something pretty basic about human nature and relationships.

-l.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marie, I&#8217;d certainly be willing to concede that there is no particular need to extract a story&#8217;s theme, in order for the writer to write it, nor readers to read and benefit from it &#8230; </p>
<p>The thing about theme is that it has no meaning without the accompanying characters, setting, and other symbols.  And to focus on any sort of &#8220;message&#8221; while you&#8217;re writing your story can actually make it come out mechanical and flat.  Theme has to emerge from the story, not be imposed upon it.  If that&#8217;s what you are saying, then you and I are in agreement.  </p>
<p>But I find that when people are describing what moved them or grabbed them about a particular work, there was a &#8220;something&#8221; at the center of it all, and that something can usually be boiled down into something pretty basic about human nature and relationships.</p>
<p>-l.</p>
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		<title>By: Mitch Wagner</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/laurajmixon/craft/defining-story#comment-1454</link>
		<dc:creator>Mitch Wagner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Aug 2006 06:04:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/laurajmixon/misc/defining-story#comment-1454</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Many people talk about the trade-off between entertainment and depth. Often youâ€™ll hear it as an argument about the artistic value of a work versus the commercial value. The fact is, there is no intrinsic conflict between high entertainment value and depth of meaning.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Mel Brooks said many times that he wrote &lt;em&gt;The Producers&lt;/em&gt; because he knew that the best way to fight Naziism in particular, and bigotry in general, was to belittle it. 

And even childish comedies like &lt;em&gt;The 40-Year-Old Virgin, There's Something About Mary,&lt;/em&gt; and &lt;em&gt;Animal House&lt;/em&gt; work because they have complete stories as foundations for the gags. &lt;em&gt;Virgin&lt;/em&gt; is about how a true heart can find true love--even if the true heart is in the body of a 40-year-old dork who rides a child's bicycle to his job in electronics store every day. &lt;em&gt;Mary&lt;/em&gt; is about how good character wins out over deceit and treachery (yeah, the gross-out jokes and childish humor in &lt;em&gt;Mary&lt;/em&gt; is great, but what's also great is the way that the story establishes that the Down's syndrome brother freaks out if his ears are touched by anybody but someone he trusts, and how the hero, saying good-by at the end, casually plucks the headphones from  the brother's ear to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Many people talk about the trade-off between entertainment and depth. Often youâ€™ll hear it as an argument about the artistic value of a work versus the commercial value. The fact is, there is no intrinsic conflict between high entertainment value and depth of meaning.</p></blockquote>
<p>Mel Brooks said many times that he wrote <em>The Producers</em> because he knew that the best way to fight Naziism in particular, and bigotry in general, was to belittle it. </p>
<p>And even childish comedies like <em>The 40-Year-Old Virgin, There&#8217;s Something About Mary,</em> and <em>Animal House</em> work because they have complete stories as foundations for the gags. <em>Virgin</em> is about how a true heart can find true love&#8211;even if the true heart is in the body of a 40-year-old dork who rides a child&#8217;s bicycle to his job in electronics store every day. <em>Mary</em> is about how good character wins out over deceit and treachery (yeah, the gross-out jokes and childish humor in <em>Mary</em> is great, but what&#8217;s also great is the way that the story establishes that the Down&#8217;s syndrome brother freaks out if his ears are touched by anybody but someone he trusts, and how the hero, saying good-by at the end, casually plucks the headphones from  the brother&#8217;s ear to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Marie Brennan</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/laurajmixon/craft/defining-story#comment-1449</link>
		<dc:creator>Marie Brennan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Aug 2006 03:05:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/laurajmixon/misc/defining-story#comment-1449</guid>
		<description>I've never been a fan of the "theme in one sentence" school of thought.  Yes, you might be able to do it, but that generally grinds out everything that makes the topic interesting -- all the nuances and complexities and perhaps even contradictions that made me interested in the story.  Some of my favorite works, I couldn't begin to tell you what The Theme of each one is.  I can tell you some of the things they're about, but that's not the same thing.  And I don't think that a difficulty boiling them down to single sentences in any way means they're floundering.  Clear theme tends, in my experience, to equal preachiness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never been a fan of the &#8220;theme in one sentence&#8221; school of thought.  Yes, you might be able to do it, but that generally grinds out everything that makes the topic interesting &#8212; all the nuances and complexities and perhaps even contradictions that made me interested in the story.  Some of my favorite works, I couldn&#8217;t begin to tell you what The Theme of each one is.  I can tell you some of the things they&#8217;re about, but that&#8217;s not the same thing.  And I don&#8217;t think that a difficulty boiling them down to single sentences in any way means they&#8217;re floundering.  Clear theme tends, in my experience, to equal preachiness.</p>
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		<title>By: Sherwood Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/laurajmixon/craft/defining-story#comment-1444</link>
		<dc:creator>Sherwood Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Aug 2006 01:27:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/laurajmixon/misc/defining-story#comment-1444</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;1. Entertainment without meaning outsells meaning without entertainment, but neither sells nearly as well as entertainment with meaning.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;Bingo&lt;/strong&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>1. Entertainment without meaning outsells meaning without entertainment, but neither sells nearly as well as entertainment with meaning.</p></blockquote>
<p><strong>Bingo</strong>.</p>
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