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	<title>Comments on: Where&#8217;s the Latrine?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/madeleine-robins/craft/worldbuilding/wheres-the-latrine/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/madeleine-robins/craft/worldbuilding/wheres-the-latrine</link>
	<description>Writing and Reading. Commerce and Art. Fantasy and Science Fiction. Discuss.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Faye</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/madeleine-robins/craft/worldbuilding/wheres-the-latrine#comment-45354</link>
		<dc:creator>Faye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 01:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/madeleine-robins/craft/worldbuilding/wheres-the-latrine#comment-45354</guid>
		<description>Looking a bit more from the reader's perspective -- when I read a story I do want to hear about the latrines, or bathrooms, or privies, or bushes that characters use.  It shows that the characters are real and need a bathroom like the rest of us.  If a character goes through an entire book without even mentioning the type of bathroom, I probably won't notice it while I'm reading. (When I read I just tend to go with the flow -- it's when I put the book down that I think about it.)  So when I do think about the story and characters, it'll lose a bit of reality for me -- because where &lt;em&gt;are&lt;/em&gt; the latrines, don't those characters ever have to use them?  

I think Sherwood does this very nicely in one of the stories I read off her website.  The main character visits another world and runs around with the characters there.  Meanwhile, she has to use the bathroom -- and it seems like those girls never do.  She asks about bathrooms and it turns out there's a waste spell so bathrooms aren't needed.  It never has to be mentioned again and I don't wonder about the latrines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looking a bit more from the reader&#8217;s perspective &#8212; when I read a story I do want to hear about the latrines, or bathrooms, or privies, or bushes that characters use.  It shows that the characters are real and need a bathroom like the rest of us.  If a character goes through an entire book without even mentioning the type of bathroom, I probably won&#8217;t notice it while I&#8217;m reading. (When I read I just tend to go with the flow &#8212; it&#8217;s when I put the book down that I think about it.)  So when I do think about the story and characters, it&#8217;ll lose a bit of reality for me &#8212; because where <em>are</em> the latrines, don&#8217;t those characters ever have to use them?  </p>
<p>I think Sherwood does this very nicely in one of the stories I read off her website.  The main character visits another world and runs around with the characters there.  Meanwhile, she has to use the bathroom &#8212; and it seems like those girls never do.  She asks about bathrooms and it turns out there&#8217;s a waste spell so bathrooms aren&#8217;t needed.  It never has to be mentioned again and I don&#8217;t wonder about the latrines.</p>
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		<title>By: sfmarty</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/madeleine-robins/craft/worldbuilding/wheres-the-latrine#comment-15656</link>
		<dc:creator>sfmarty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 00:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/madeleine-robins/craft/worldbuilding/wheres-the-latrine#comment-15656</guid>
		<description>I didn't read all of the comments and what I have to say is probably uninteresting, but here is what I have seen.

In Athens, near the temple of the winds, is a row of stone holes that are obviously toilets. I did not inspect the disposal system as they were in pretty bad shape. 

In Teotitlan, there was a series of troughs leading to a stone with holes in it. Looked like a shower to me. At the bottom of this stone, which was well above my head, there was a trough to lead the water away. Bet they had toilets.

In Crete, there was a toilet with troughs (in stone) to lead the waste away to pipes. The pipes went thru the city (small city) and thence to the hillside. I imagine whatever was in the pipe just went over the edge. Mind you, a lot of reconstruction went on there, but it looked pretty original to me. 

These sites were all near places of importance so maybe the "regular" people just had to make do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t read all of the comments and what I have to say is probably uninteresting, but here is what I have seen.</p>
<p>In Athens, near the temple of the winds, is a row of stone holes that are obviously toilets. I did not inspect the disposal system as they were in pretty bad shape. </p>
<p>In Teotitlan, there was a series of troughs leading to a stone with holes in it. Looked like a shower to me. At the bottom of this stone, which was well above my head, there was a trough to lead the water away. Bet they had toilets.</p>
<p>In Crete, there was a toilet with troughs (in stone) to lead the waste away to pipes. The pipes went thru the city (small city) and thence to the hillside. I imagine whatever was in the pipe just went over the edge. Mind you, a lot of reconstruction went on there, but it looked pretty original to me. </p>
<p>These sites were all near places of importance so maybe the &#8220;regular&#8221; people just had to make do.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicole L.</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/madeleine-robins/craft/worldbuilding/wheres-the-latrine#comment-14411</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicole L.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2007 05:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/madeleine-robins/craft/worldbuilding/wheres-the-latrine#comment-14411</guid>
		<description>I just read today that another city in BC, Canada -- can't remember which -- is still pumping its raw sewage into the straits it is located on. They've finally committed to joining the 21st Century in terms of sewage by June 2007. Eww!

This was in the Utne Reader, Feb. 2007 issue. Back to homework. yuck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read today that another city in BC, Canada &#8212; can&#8217;t remember which &#8212; is still pumping its raw sewage into the straits it is located on. They&#8217;ve finally committed to joining the 21st Century in terms of sewage by June 2007. Eww!</p>
<p>This was in the Utne Reader, Feb. 2007 issue. Back to homework. yuck.</p>
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		<title>By: Sengei Tawn</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/madeleine-robins/craft/worldbuilding/wheres-the-latrine#comment-14227</link>
		<dc:creator>Sengei Tawn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 14:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/madeleine-robins/craft/worldbuilding/wheres-the-latrine#comment-14227</guid>
		<description>Futurist city planning

&lt;strong&gt;Flush with Progress &lt;/strong&gt;
The homeless population of Vancouver, British Columbia, has doubled in recent years. Now high populations of homeless persons and drug abusers have created an unsanitary problem for the city--streets, alleys, and parking lots around the downtown are habitually used as outdoor toilets. The city is now purchasing several new high-tech, self-cleaning bathroom booths--at up to $300,000 apiece--to be installed in critical areas, with an urban anthropologist to pinpoint major problem spots. The city is looking at a stainless steel model that cleans and dries every surface of its interior after each use.

From the journal: Environmental Health Perspectives
http://www.ehponline.org/docs/2005/113-11/forum.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Futurist city planning</p>
<p><strong>Flush with Progress </strong><br />
The homeless population of Vancouver, British Columbia, has doubled in recent years. Now high populations of homeless persons and drug abusers have created an unsanitary problem for the city&#8211;streets, alleys, and parking lots around the downtown are habitually used as outdoor toilets. The city is now purchasing several new high-tech, self-cleaning bathroom booths&#8211;at up to $300,000 apiece&#8211;to be installed in critical areas, with an urban anthropologist to pinpoint major problem spots. The city is looking at a stainless steel model that cleans and dries every surface of its interior after each use.</p>
<p>From the journal: Environmental Health Perspectives<br />
<a href="http://www.ehponline.org/docs/2005/113-11/forum.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ehponline.org/docs/2005/113-11/forum.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Nicole L.</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/madeleine-robins/craft/worldbuilding/wheres-the-latrine#comment-14112</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicole L.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 03:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/madeleine-robins/craft/worldbuilding/wheres-the-latrine#comment-14112</guid>
		<description>Madeline, Kate, Constance: Thank you!

Constance, I can't wait to see your post on Google searching.

A quick Google on &lt;a href="http://www.google.com/help/features.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;"Google search terms"&lt;/a&gt; gives you helpful info. I knew you could get definitions using define: and use google as a calculator, but currency conversion?

And here is the google&lt;a href="http://www.googleguide.com/advanced_operators_1.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;guide and tutorial on search operators&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Madeline, Kate, Constance: Thank you!</p>
<p>Constance, I can&#8217;t wait to see your post on Google searching.</p>
<p>A quick Google on <a href="http://www.google.com/help/features.html" rel="nofollow">&#8220;Google search terms&#8221;</a> gives you helpful info. I knew you could get definitions using define: and use google as a calculator, but currency conversion?</p>
<p>And here is the google<a href="http://www.googleguide.com/advanced_operators_1.html" rel="nofollow">guide and tutorial on search operators</a></p>
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		<title>By: Brendan Podger</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/madeleine-robins/craft/worldbuilding/wheres-the-latrine#comment-13679</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendan Podger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 23:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/madeleine-robins/craft/worldbuilding/wheres-the-latrine#comment-13679</guid>
		<description>And of course if you know what the toilets are like you can have a bit action take place there.  If it's enclosed, a mysterious voice can whisper an urgent message(Dyanna Wynn Jones: The Crown of Dalemark); you can be followed out there and accosted(way to many to name).  You could even get bold and have a minor character work in the industry.  In Terry Pratchett's "The Truth" one character has the nickname "King of the golden river".  I may never use it but I am glad that now I know what a "tosheroon" is thanks to Mr Pratchett.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And of course if you know what the toilets are like you can have a bit action take place there.  If it&#8217;s enclosed, a mysterious voice can whisper an urgent message(Dyanna Wynn Jones: The Crown of Dalemark); you can be followed out there and accosted(way to many to name).  You could even get bold and have a minor character work in the industry.  In Terry Pratchett&#8217;s &#8220;The Truth&#8221; one character has the nickname &#8220;King of the golden river&#8221;.  I may never use it but I am glad that now I know what a &#8220;tosheroon&#8221; is thanks to Mr Pratchett.</p>
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		<title>By: Madeleine Robins</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/madeleine-robins/craft/worldbuilding/wheres-the-latrine#comment-13475</link>
		<dc:creator>Madeleine Robins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 06:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/madeleine-robins/craft/worldbuilding/wheres-the-latrine#comment-13475</guid>
		<description>Constance: what Kate said.  I turn up all sorts of stuff, but not of the level and variety that you seem to be able to find.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Constance: what Kate said.  I turn up all sorts of stuff, but not of the level and variety that you seem to be able to find.</p>
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		<title>By: kateelliott</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/madeleine-robins/craft/worldbuilding/wheres-the-latrine#comment-13402</link>
		<dc:creator>kateelliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2007 23:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/madeleine-robins/craft/worldbuilding/wheres-the-latrine#comment-13402</guid>
		<description>Constance, I would love it if you would do a post on searching for out-of-print books on google.  Or online searching in general.  I'm sure I am still working online searches at a very primitive level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Constance, I would love it if you would do a post on searching for out-of-print books on google.  Or online searching in general.  I&#8217;m sure I am still working online searches at a very primitive level.</p>
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		<title>By: Constance Ash</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/madeleine-robins/craft/worldbuilding/wheres-the-latrine#comment-13393</link>
		<dc:creator>Constance Ash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2007 23:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/madeleine-robins/craft/worldbuilding/wheres-the-latrine#comment-13393</guid>
		<description>Search strings can come up with useful information, like this out of google:

&lt;em&gt;Straws in the Wind&lt;/em&gt;: &lt;em&gt;Medieval Urban Environmental Lawâ€“The Case of Northern Italy&lt;/em&gt; - Page 63
by Ronald Edward Zupko, Robert Anthony Laures - 1996 - 152 pages
â€¦ during stormy periods.14 Medieval Water and Sewer Systems The dissolution of the
â€¦ were located in low-lying areas near latrines and cesspools. â€¦
Limited preview - Table of Contents - About this book

This provides the useful search string, â€œMedieval Urban Environmental Law.â€? Legal research opens so many doors â€¦.

Then the full-text capacity to search  out-of-print books on google opens surprising doors.  I'm still just in awe of this capacity from home, that wasn't available on this level even a year ago!

And now, almost everything in English that is out of print from the 19th century and earlier is full text on google. Which means all those most useful travel books, that contain so much essential information as to how things were with the actual people, that histories donâ€™t include â€” though historians have now learned to consult them too, though the stricter historians still donâ€™t consider them primary documents. Only texts generated by official figures and institutions are considered â€˜primaryâ€™ by that sort.

Just amazing. Just wonderful, what you can find online.   Instead of driving to the U of VA you can read the book at home, online, on their library's site.

Love, C.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Search strings can come up with useful information, like this out of google:</p>
<p><em>Straws in the Wind</em>: <em>Medieval Urban Environmental Lawâ€“The Case of Northern Italy</em> - Page 63<br />
by Ronald Edward Zupko, Robert Anthony Laures - 1996 - 152 pages<br />
â€¦ during stormy periods.14 Medieval Water and Sewer Systems The dissolution of the<br />
â€¦ were located in low-lying areas near latrines and cesspools. â€¦<br />
Limited preview - Table of Contents - About this book</p>
<p>This provides the useful search string, â€œMedieval Urban Environmental Law.â€? Legal research opens so many doors â€¦.</p>
<p>Then the full-text capacity to search  out-of-print books on google opens surprising doors.  I&#8217;m still just in awe of this capacity from home, that wasn&#8217;t available on this level even a year ago!</p>
<p>And now, almost everything in English that is out of print from the 19th century and earlier is full text on google. Which means all those most useful travel books, that contain so much essential information as to how things were with the actual people, that histories donâ€™t include â€” though historians have now learned to consult them too, though the stricter historians still donâ€™t consider them primary documents. Only texts generated by official figures and institutions are considered â€˜primaryâ€™ by that sort.</p>
<p>Just amazing. Just wonderful, what you can find online.   Instead of driving to the U of VA you can read the book at home, online, on their library&#8217;s site.</p>
<p>Love, C.</p>
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		<title>By: Lois Tilton</title>
		<link>http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/madeleine-robins/craft/worldbuilding/wheres-the-latrine#comment-13347</link>
		<dc:creator>Lois Tilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2007 20:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepgenre.com/wordpress/madeleine-robins/craft/worldbuilding/wheres-the-latrine#comment-13347</guid>
		<description>At least in the latrines in the military barracks, it does seem that they shared the sponge.

It was kept in a pot of water, to which I hope had been added some sort of disinfectant/deodorizers, like vinegar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At least in the latrines in the military barracks, it does seem that they shared the sponge.</p>
<p>It was kept in a pot of water, to which I hope had been added some sort of disinfectant/deodorizers, like vinegar.</p>
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